Question to our SDA friend

Uh, Brother TP, Shiloh was quoting Gehard Ebersoehn (GE)

 

I do not have any children at home but if I did I agree, I ought to be taking care of them.

I noticed you made also comments about me posting here on Saturday/Sabbath and acted as if I shouldnt be doing that.

I am sorry that you view yourself as someone who should tell me when I am allowed to post here or not. I do not know where you got that idea from but God Bless You anyway.

But nevertheless. I have no way to get to my Church at the current time. If I did, I would of been there.

I am happy you seem so concerned about it I suppose and about my children that you think that I have. At least I commend you for your obvious concern for my welfare and that of my children.

Claudia

 

ok well that was my first attempt at being nice to Shiloh, instead of just ignoring them and/or posting back a sarcastic remark to them.

And actually it felt kind of good.

For now, its back to ignorning though because one of these is all I can manage for the time being.

I am really sorry for all of these interruptions but honestly it is difficult to know what to do when someone just follows you around harrassing you. Hard to know just how to handle that gracefully. But I am trying. And I truly cannot fathom why they have chosen me as their target. I am going to just try mostly to ignore all that they say for the sake of others here who have to view all of this.

Claudia

 

As is typical, my good friend BobRyan has hit the nail on the head.

Each person is responsible for THEIR OWN sin, regardless of who decieved them into choosing to sin. Lets logically consider the idea that our sin gets put onto Satan... or attributed to Satan.

This would mean that Jesus -- who died for our sins -- had actually died for Satan's redemption. If Jesus made atonement for our sin, but that sin was somehow attributed to Satan, then so too must the justification for the sin be likewise attributed to Satan. That would mean that Satan is free to tempt whomever he will because he us under grace. That is a rediculous notion as his fate is well established in scripture.

Satan is guilty of his own actions, just as every person will answer for THEIR OWN choices. You cannot blame satan for tempting you -- the Genesis account makes that perfectly clear. Adam and eve played the blame game, but they were ultimately held responsible for their choice regardless of who convinced them to make the wrong choice.

 

I have forgotten what the question to our SDA friend was again ....

 

GE:

Just asking. Gup20, is your own tongue perhaps Germanic? Sorry for the invenience, only inquisitive.

 

What is the 'cult' that that makes the SDA?
Here is the kind of 'cult' I think the SDA is:

cult1 - a system of religious worship or ritual

I note that the group Bro. Shiloh belongs to is a CULT.

So name one thing wrong with this kind of CULT?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh
I won't use as many words as you as I won't beat around the bush. IF our sins are placed on satan and he is "cast out" then satan becoms the savior and the Blessed Lord Jesus would have died in vain. That is what makes the SDA a cult.



that for the upteenth time is just so dumb, we have never ever said satan is our saviour or makes atonement or anything near to it. Honestly I dont know whats the matter with you shiloh... we have told you this time and time again and Ive tried to be patient
and its also just ridiculous to call us a "cult" as well, its like you're obsessed with my church for some reason.

below are two quotes from Bob's posts... maybe if you stand on your head this time and read them upside down it will sink in...

-----------------

In that case it is not our sins that are on Satan - since Christ paid the debt for our sins - rather it is Satan's OWN sin that is on Satan - HIS sin of tempting the saints -- not the saints sins.
Our sins are recorded in the books and are then blotted out via the blood of Christ. And that ends the "debt owed" for our sins.
However Christ is not going to pay for the sins that Satan commits - as I know we both agree.
In Christ,
Bob

But using that model - it is still Satan's own sins laid upon Satan - even if it is specifically the added guilt that he must endure for HIS sin of tempting those who belong to God's Kingdom -- the saints.
The same is true of the wicked - that the scapegoat also represents. The wicked pay for their own sins in hell - even though Christ's blood was sufficient to atone for them had they accept Christ as their savior.
In Christ,
Bob

 

Brother Silo:

You define cult as //A "cult" is defined as a group
or person that desecrates the doctrine of Christ.//

Which is a loaded defintion which I've found NOWHERE.
And you don't ever show it applies to SDAs.

And you contradict yourself:

Shiloh: //I will name a few thing about the cult of the SDA.
They are still keeping the (what they call)
moral laws of the 10 commandments.//

This contradicts the 'doctrine of Christ' how?
It sure does not desecrate the 'doctrine of Christ'.

Shiloh: // I will name a few thing about the cult of the SDA.
... They like the JW's don't believe in an eternal Lake of Fire. //

This contradicts the 'doctrine of Christ' how?
It sure does not desecrate the 'doctrine of Christ'.

Shiloh: //I will name a few thing about the cult of the SDA.
... They teach Mrs.White's so called investigative judgement as inspired
and other stupid stuff she said as inspired as Scripture and ... //

This contradicts the 'doctrine of Christ' how?
It sure does not desecrate the 'doctrine of Christ'.

Shiloh: //I will name a few thing about the cult of the SDA. ...
and they are still "keeping" the Jewish Sabbath.//

This contradicts the 'doctrine of Christ' how?
It sure does not desecrate the 'doctrine of Christ'.

Shiloh: //Mr. Ed, do you need more?//

1. yes boy, i need more respect as an elder.
I note you call me Mr. Ed' which is a talking horse
and have humbly requested you not use that term
even PLEADED IN THE NAME of 'JESUS'.
So obviously you are a cult as you
are desecrating the 'doctrine of Christ'.

2. Yes, you still didn't show me one case where
the SDAs even contradict the 'dictrine of Christ'
and of course one would have to at least contradict
the 'doctrine of Christ' before they can desecrate it.

So your defintion of 'cult' contradicts your arguments
about how the SDA desecrates the 'doctrine of Christ.

I showed the SDA and IFB both as cults.
You can't even show the SDA is a cult.
Tee Hee - I'm better at proving the SDA a cult than
you are. I even like individual SDAs (and a few IFBs as well).

Shiloh: //Mrs. White is quoted in their book, "Answers to Objections" by Francis D. Nichol on page 402,

I've argued with IFBs on the same side of this question
from Mrs. White (I'm on the opposite side).
Like the IFBs the SDAs line up on both sides of the
OSAS question. Neither side contradicts the 'doctrine of Christ'.
Neither side desecrates the 'doctrine of Christ'.

Shiloh: // Sir I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist,
if that is a "cult" in your estimation you are in some bad shape.//

Indeed, IFB is a cult under definition #1:
cult1 - a system of religious worship or ritual
and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the IFB being
a cult UNDER THAT DEFINITION. (Nor is their anything wrong
with the SDA being a cult under that definition).

 

Quote:
Those who accept the Savour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading. Every one should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation.... Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life.

SO WHAT??

If a person just read what she says... it has to do with the fact that Peter began his denial of Christ when he said "everyone else might forsake you but I wont" then he went out and denied Christ 3 times. "Pride goeth before a fall".
The same idea is found here:
1Cor:10:12: Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
its just the same idea as any other church that believes you have to persevere till the end

But since you insist on bringing up what Ellen White says on this, here it is in context from the book "Christ's Object Lessons", "The Two Worshippers" (Publican and Pharisee); EGWhite:


The evil that led to Peter's fall and that shut out the Pharisee from communion with God is proving the ruin of thousands today. There is nothing so offensive to God or so dangerous to the human soul as pride and self-sufficiency. Of all sins it is the most hopeless, the most incurable.
Peter's fall was not instantaneous, but gradual. Self-confidence led him to the belief that he was saved, and step after step was taken in the downward path, until he could deny his Master. Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel, this side of heaven, that we are secure against temptation. Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading. Every one should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. God's word declares, "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried." Dan. 12:10. Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life. (James 1:12.)
Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves. They lose sight of their own weakness and their constant need of divine strength. They are unprepared for Satan's devices, and under temptation many, like Peter, fall into the very depths of sin. We are admonished, "Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall." 1 Cor. 10:12. Our only safety is in constant distrust of self, and dependence on Christ.
It was necessary for Peter to learn his own defects of character, and his need of the power and grace of Christ. The Lord could not save him from trial, but He could have saved him from defeat. Had Peter been willing to receive Christ's warning, he would have been watching unto prayer. He would have walked with fear and trembling lest his feet should stumble. And he would have received divine help so that Satan could not have gained the victory.
It was through self-sufficiency that Peter fell; and it was through repentance and humiliation that his feet were again established. In the record of his experience every repenting sinner may find encouragement. Though Peter had grievously sinned, he was not forsaken. The words of Christ were written upon his soul, "I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not." Luke 22:32. In his bitter agony of remorse, this prayer, and the memory of Christ's look of love and pity, gave him hope. Christ after His resurrection remembered Peter, and gave the angel the message for the women, "Go your way, tell His disciples and Peter that He goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see Him." Mark 16:7. Peter's repentance was accepted by the sin-pardoning Saviour.
And the same compassion that reached out to rescue Peter is extended to every soul who has fallen under temptation. It is Satan's special device to lead man into sin, and then leave him, helpless and trembling, fearing to seek for pardon. But why should we fear, when God has said, "Let him take hold of My strength, that he may make peace with Me; and he shall make peace with Me?" Isa. 27:5. Every provision has been made for our infirmities, every encouragement offered us to come to Christ.
Christ offered up His broken body to purchase back God's heritage, to give man another trial. "Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them." Heb. 7:25. By His spotless life, His obedience, His death on the cross of Calvary, Christ interceded for the lost race. And now, not as a mere petitioner does the Captain of our salvation intercede for us, but as a Conqueror claiming His victory. His offering is complete, and as our Intercessor He executes His self-appointed work, holding before God the censer containing His own spotless merits and the prayers, confessions, and thanksgiving of His people. Perfumed with the fragrance of His righteousness, these ascend to God as a sweet savor. The offering is wholly acceptable, and pardon covers all transgression.
Christ has pledged Himself to be our substitute and surety, and He neglects no one. He who could not see human beings exposed to eternal ruin without pouring out His soul unto death in their behalf, will look with pity and compassion upon every soul who realizes that he cannot save himself.
He will look upon no trembling suppliant without raising him up. He who through His own atonement provided for man an infinite fund of moral power, will not fail to employ this power in our behalf. We may take our sins and sorrows to His feet; for He loves us. His every look and word invites our confidence. He will shape and mold our characters according to His own will. In the whole Satanic force there is not power to overcome one soul who in simple trust casts himself on Christ. "He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might He increaseth strength." Isa. 40:29.

 

Did you get the part about the Atonement being complete?

 

Shiloh -- more reading - less ranting.

 

Of course our sins are forgiven the moment we repent and come to Christ -- and yet it is STILL true that .

"We must all give an account before the judgment seat of Christ....for deeds done in the body - both good and evil" 2Cor 5:10

How many ways are there to ignore that text?

 

Dear Shiloh,

You asked where our sins end up ultimately.

Please LISTEN THIS TIME...


1.The sins of the pentinent, those who are "the Saved" went upon the head of Jesus who made atonement for them.

2.the sins of the wicked fall upon their own heads since they didnt accept Jesus, they will pay for them in Hell. The blood of Christ was sufficient to atone for their sins but they did not accept Christ and therefore must pay for their own sins.

3. OUR SINS are NOT upon Satan's head. What is upon Satan's head is HIS OWN SIN... his sin of tempting the people, deceiving the people
As BobRyan said:
"Our sins are recorded in the books and are then blotted out via the blood of Christ. And that ends the "debt owed" for our sins.
However Christ is not going to pay for the sins that Satan commits"


Claudia

 

Sorry, Claudia_T! This statement is completely un-Biblical, and is about as close to heresy as anything I've seen on the BB. That is not a personal attack, but I think on this much more study is in order. Scripture clearly teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ is the one who took away, and bore all sin. He is not only the Lamb who was slain; He, and He alone, is the 'scapegoat', as well.

Ed

 

Ok, but what does crawling in the dirt have to do with a scapegoat? Sorry, these responses are so late coming, but this is my first foray into this thread.

Ed

 

didnt you just read what I just posted? It is the responsibility for tempting us and deceiving us into sin that is placed upon Satans head... I clearly just posted that.

 

Im not even going to bother with this anymore... it clearly is a casting your pearls in the wrong area thing