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Featured Regenerated/saved "through faith"

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, May 5, 2012.

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  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Technically speaking, 'in a sense', you are correct. Faith itself is not meritorious in nature, neither is it the grounds of our salvation.


    HP: In this you are absolutely wrong. Again, we are NOT saved as you say 'by' our faith, but neither will anyone be saved 'apart from' our faith.

    Faith is a condition of salvation, and as such is NOT thought of in any meritorious sense or context. Still, faith IS required by God from us, 'without which' it is impossible to please God. Faith, as well as all conditions of salvation, are ALWAYS thought of in the sense of 'not without which,' and never in the sense of 'that for the sake of.'

    The ONLY grounds of salvation, and source or merit by which man is saved, is the grace and mercy of God via the shed blood of Christ.
     
    #21 Heavenly Pilgrim, May 6, 2012
  2. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    hp

    I know I am correct, whether you agree or not !

    If one believes they are saved because of their faith or believing, then it becomes meritorius, I do not care what you say !

    Faith has nothing to do with New Birth. Until one is born again, they have no Faith, none that pleases God anyway !

    Thats works salvation, condemned by God !
     
    #22 savedbymercy, May 6, 2012
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Actually my post agrees with your post except my understanding of the "through faith" And the regeneration and quickening is from this concept.

    Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Paul will go on to show the Spirit was received out of hearing of faith. Where did the Spirit come from unto those who received the Spirit?

    It was the receiving of the Spirit that puts us in the resurrected Jesus Christ. It was Jesus Christ who was regenerated from the dead and received the promise of the Holy Spirit which was then shed on those who received it.
    The Spirit puts one in a Covenant relationship with Jesus Christ quickening them with Christ being in Christ and giving them assurance of life from the dead. So the faith was obedience unto death of the sinless one who was quickened by God the Father, Grace.

    Speaking of the Holy Spirit Titus 3:6 Which he (God the Father) shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

    Through means Jesus received it then it was given to us. Does it not?

    Verse 5 by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
    To whom?

    John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    The Spirit would not come until the seed of promise received the Spirit first.

    Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith.
     
    #23 percho, May 6, 2012
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    How and Why on or about noon one day did Saul/Paul pass from unbelief unto belief and I will agree that at this time he did not have the Holy Spirit.
    For I do not believe he received the Spirit for three days.

    If anyone has an answer and BTW I do not, why did Saul/Paul remain blind for three days after Jesus called him?
     
    #24 percho, May 7, 2012
  5. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    So what you are saying is that the analogy of spiritual birth to physical birth wasn't a very good one.

    I say this for I do not think you had one iota of a thing to do with your physical birth, therefore bad analogy.
     
    #25 percho, May 7, 2012
  6. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Percho, I had nothing to do with my physical birth, but Scripture plainly tells me that unless I obey and repent and believe, I will not be saved. Man's will is indeed involved in salvation, but again, NOTHING we do is meritorious in nature.
     
    #26 Heavenly Pilgrim, May 7, 2012
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    What you are really saying is that you are incapable of responding to the evidence presented and so you are reduced to slandering the writer instead.
     
    #27 The Biblicist, May 7, 2012
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Responding with RJP is admission of error not a responsible response to exposition. (R = run from the context; J = jump to another text; P = pit that text against the text in question).
     
    #28 The Biblicist, May 7, 2012
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Gal. 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
    16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

    That is precisely why the new birth is compared to physical birth - you have nothing to do with either.

    "When it pleased God" modifies both "separated me from my mother's womb AND called me by his Grace to reveal his Son in me"

    In both cases it was entirely according to "WHEN" it pleased God not when it pleased Paul and in both cases God is the cause and not Paul. Paul had no more determination or ability to bring about either. Repentance and faith are but the human side experience of regeneration. Regeneration and Justification regeneration are simeltaneous actions but in a LOGICAL cause and consequence relationship.
     
    #29 The Biblicist, May 7, 2012
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    the bib

    Thats False, Justification before God occurred before the foundation, and it was evidenced in time first at the Resurrection of Christ. When Christ rose from the dead, it was because of the Justification of those whose offences He bare ! Rom 4:25

    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    And by that same Resurrected Life, they are Regenerated or born again 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    They are Justified by His Death, born again by His Life ! That is simple Biblical Truth, for you teach a False Gospel !
     
    #30 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  11. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    I am not going to unravel that twised pretzel of a mess , it is not worth it, for the Testimony of the Truth is clear from me here !
     
    #31 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You cannot deal with it because it is a rational accurate Biblical exposition of the text. If it were not, then anyone could with any ability could go into the text and point out where I abused the grammar or developmental argument which is so easily seen in this text.

    Indeed, I have yet to see you deal exegetically or expositorily with any text of scripture. Your MO is the RJP method:

    R = RUN from the text
    J = JUMP to another text
    P = PIT one scripture against another
     
    #32 The Biblicist, May 7, 2012
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The same truth being taught here by Paul was taught by Christ in John 6:44-45; 64-65.

    Drawing is the work of the Father, while coming to Christ is a description of faith or believing by the elect.

    The same term translated "draw" is used when the disciples drew the net, the net was coming to them. Something that is being drawn is coming or else it is not being drawn. They are identical actions. Tie a rope to a stick and then draw it and see if coming is not an identical action with drawing.

    Drawing is the regenerating work of God while coming is repentance and faith in the gospel. They are identical in action but distinct in cause and effect.


    The same truth is taught by John in 1 John 5:1 where John uses the perfect tense verb "born" and the present tense participle "beleiveth." The action of the participle is grammatically identical with the action of the verb. If John would have used a future tense participle then the action of the participle would have been future from the action of the verb. Thus new birth would precede faith. If John would have used any completed action participle (Imperfect, Aorist, Perfect tense) it would have preceded the action of the verb. Thus faith would precede new birth. However, the present participle means the action of faith was present or identical action with the verb - new birth and faith occur simeltaneously together.
     
    #33 The Biblicist, May 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2012
  14. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    You twist scripture to your own destruction.
     
    #34 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You are only advertising your own ignorance of the Scriptures and incompetence as a Biblical exegete. Now you are attempting to play the part of God, being jury and judge.

    The truth is in the pudding! You practice RJP just as the cults do. Anyone who deals with the scriptures by the MO of RJP is proof they are either false teachers, misled and ignorant or both.
     
    #35 The Biblicist, May 7, 2012
  16. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    You have done a terrible twist job. Not worth my time, but mans faith plays no part in being Regenerated, that is a False Gospel of works all day long !
     
    #36 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  17. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Do you think you are the same as the Apostle Paul? Apostle Paul is an Apostle. He was one of the ones who laid the foundation with the Prophets, and with Jesus Christ as the Chief cornerstone. The plan for salvation was made before the beginning of the world. Do you not think that God had known who and why the Apostles would be?
    Paul was unnaturally born as a Christian. The other Apostles (except for of course Judas Iscariot) they were believers and followers of Jesus from the beginning. Paul was not. Why do you think Jesus had to appear before Paul and speak to him? Why did not Jesus do to Paul what you claim he does supernaturally to all those saved? The devil has misled you from the truth.
    Again, the Bible says Paul was an unnaturally born Christian. God gives us His Spirit when HE ACCEPTS US. AFTER we believe and obey.
    You do not preach about the God of the Holy Bible. The message of the gospel is powerful, it is the message that saves, it is the Word of God revealed, it is in hearing the message that faith comes from. We do not understand why God tells us to do this and that, but after we obey, THEN God reveals to us.
     
    #37 Moriah, May 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2012
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Thats a lie, Paul was an example, he himself testifies to, of Christ coming to save sinners, that he is chief !

    1 Tim 1:15

    15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
     
    #38 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  19. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    I am not lying. You are the one who speaks lies.
    1 Corinthians 15:8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

    Paul was unnaturally born. Paul was abnormally born. Now I hope you have great unrest for speaking so cruelly to true believers of God. I hope you have great unrest with your beliefs, and maybe you will repent. For now you have to wonder why Jesus did not just cause Paul to believe supernaturally, as you claim ALL come to believe, but instead Jesus appeared to Paul, which caused him to believe, because he was not a believer.
     
    #39 Moriah, May 7, 2012
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    1 Tim 1:15

    15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
     
    #40 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
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