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Rev. 5:9,10 Greek Help please...

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Joey M, Oct 13, 2001.

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  1. Joey M

    Joey M New Member

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    I am studying Matt. 24 which I believe coinsides with Rev.6 in the end times. Now I have always been under the assumtion taht we get raptured or caught up before the tribulation. Part of my basis for this was that I believed that we (the church) were the 24 elders in Rev. 4 and in Rev. 5:9,10.
    And therefore believed that we were gone before the opening of any of the seals. Well in reading some of the newer translations in Rev. 5:9,10 it shows the 24 elders singing the new song. But rather than saying He has redeemed us to God, it says purchased for God men from every tribe...
    and in verse 10 kjv "and hast made us ... and we shall reign. The other versions say "you have made them ...and they will reign.
    Ok I have only four diffent copies of transcripts, which without the help of the computer I would know nothing about. These are: Biblia Sacra Vulgata, Byzantine/Majority Textform Greek New Testament, Nestle Aland 26th Editon, and Stephen's Textus Receptus 1550 and 1881 editions. All of them seem to imply with the Greek word "hmas" (I can't seem to get the Greek text to cut and paste on here, but those letters are the letters I had to use to get the Greek symbols to show up correctly.) I guess it would be the Greek word "hemas" for us or we. All of them contain this except the Nestle Aland. Is there other transcripts that do not contain this and where could I find them.
    And another thing, if the originals did not contain this word, then 1) who are the 24 elders
    And 2) where do we get raptured at (ie. Chapter 7 after the 144,000 are sealed and before the seventh seal) Because I was always under the impression that these in Chapter 7 were the Tribulation saints, those that would endure to the end.
    Anyway I'm really confused right now, but if someone could help me out, I would even paypal them a dollar.Hehehe) But seriously I'm confused, and I've probably confused you too.
    HELP!!!

    [ October 13, 2001: Message edited by: Joey M ]
     
    #1 Joey M, Oct 13, 2001
  2. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    The Greek text used by the KJV indicates that the new song is sung by those who themselves have been redeemed: “Thou . . . has redeemed us to God . . . and hast made us unto our God kings and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.”

    The NIV, however, reads, “You purchased men for God. . . . You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.” If the KJV is correct, the 24 elders must represent the church or saints in general. If their song is impersonal as in the NIV and they simply are singing that Christ is the Redeemeer of all men, it opens the possibility that the 24 elders could be angels, though it does not expressly affirm it.

    While scholars differ on this point, it would seem that since the elders are clothed in white, indicating purity; seated on thrones, suggesting responsibility and status; crowned with victors’ wreaths seem to indicate that the elders had been judged and rewarded; and they themselves bear witness that they have been redeemed by the blood of Christ and, therefore, constitute a kingdom of priests. Such a description can only represent redeemed humanity, i.e. the OT and NT saints who are raptured and missing out on The Great Tribulation!
     
    #2 John Wells, Oct 13, 2001
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