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Rev. 9:10: Historical Facts vs. Futurist Fiction

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Apr 9, 2021.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What is asked are three different questions. Jesus answers the second two. Matthew 24:2-3. . . . The answer in Luke 19:44 Jesus tells Jerusalem, ". . .thou knewest not the time . . . ."
     
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Maybe you should've checked what else was on your flagpole.

    Jesus said the AOD will occur, so it MUST occur. It did NOT occur in the old temple. Titus was NOT the 'man of sin"; he failed to meet many of the Scriptural criteria for that man. He worshipped the Roman pantheon, while the antichrist won't recognize any god but himself. He had no miracle-working false prophet sidekick. He didn't issue any marka the beast. He didn't set up a statue of himself in that temple if he even entered it at all. And he was not the big kahoona; he was willingly subservient to his father Vespasian. And he was not cast alive into the LOF. he died of illness, commonly called a "fever".

    Paul wrote in 2 Thess.2: 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

    So, the AOD MUST be future, in a new temple. Rev. 13 provides more detail, mentioning he will be accompanied by the false prophet & they'll set up a statue of the big shot in the temple, in replication of Antiochus Epiphanes' first AOD in the 160s BC, the model for the one Jesus prophesied. None of that occurred in the old temple, but it's prophesied in Scripture, so it MUST occur!

    As for "the holy place", the new temple will be as much of a dupe of the old temple as possible. Since the ark is in the heavenly temple, out of Indiana Jones' reach, I don't know what the Jews will place in it. And I also don't know what fire they'll use to light their altar.

    I agree it won't really be a temple of God, as Jesus won't be worshipped in it. But the world will view it as such, & it'll have an area the Jews will call "the holy place" in it, & they & much of the world will believe it is!

    So please check your flagpole again !
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So when did all of the living saints back then get glorified bodies?
     
  4. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 5:25 PM Pacific.
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I believe once again we've proven preterism false.
     
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  6. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    The issue is not whether the Jews would call it the holy place, the problem (for your view) is that Jesus did call it the Holy Place.

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) - Matt. 24

    14 “But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down, nor enter his house, to take anything out, 16 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 17 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! Mark 13

    Notice that Jesus is also assuming legitimacy to the temple He is referring to. "Where he ought not" implies that the person is in a place where he should not be. Now why would God even care about where this (hypothetical) future person should go. After the work of Christ there are no more holy places (See John 4).

    Matthew 24 adds another detail:

    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    Once again, just like there are no holy places, neither are there Sabbath days. That all passed away with the other Commandments of the Decalog.
     
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  7. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I do not think so. But I will let others read and judge.
     
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  8. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Where does John write about the Temple in Jerusalem?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    In what history was the physical resurrection of the dead and alive in Christ recorded down AD 70?
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, there ARE still sabbaths! God commanded Israel to keep them FOREVER. And most of the Decalogue is still in force. (You shall not murder, steal, commit adultery, etc.)

    And this does NOT account for the fact that the AOD did NOT occur in the old temple. The beast hasn't come yet. I showed you that neither Titus nor any of the Romans met the Scriptural criteria for the beast. There was no miracle-working false prophet nor any talking statues. The event simply HASN'T YET HAPPENED.
     
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Sure. You've presented nothing to support it while I've presented plenty of proofs that it's false.
     
  12. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This thread is closed.
     
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