Rick Warren and Interfaith Political Conference

I think we tend to cry 'foul' when unbelievers use the "separation of church and state" argument...but we do the same thing about mixing politics and religion. Some day there will be Theocracy...you can't blend the two any better than that.

Now, I have a problem with a pastor or church endorsing a particular political figure or position, but I don't see a problem with allowing their building to host an event without this taking place.

 

I would want my church to part of the community. I want my church to be involved in bringing people together to encourage dialogue. These guys aren't going to be teaching Sunday School (or in Rev. Warren's case small groups) but engaging honestly about matters in society while in the shadow of the cross.

All pastors are politicians. Now how and where they exercise this role is up to them. Rev. Warren has been amazing amounts of international influence and, whether we like it or not, has been given a tremendous voice through God's sovereignty. He regularly talks with major world leaders, and is anchored to the cross of Christ.

Rev. Warren isn't running for anything here. Rather he is leveraging this tremendous influence God has given him to bring together two men, one of whom will be the President by middle November, to openly talk about issues that matter. Christians shouldn't be throwing stones but honestly praying that they will hear God's voice in this process.

This is a role the Church should be comfortable with, not that we endorse any candidate (which Rev. Warren isn't doing), but that we join hand in hand with those seeking to lead us, hear from them, and pray for them. That is what the New Testament commends us to do.

That's fine, that is your preference. Don't throw Rev. Warren under the bus for accomplishing what no other organization can before the conventions, before the posturing, before the post-convention super-polarization.

I have no clue how you are pulling this into our discussion. (Not being snarky, just honest) These guys aren't teaching Sunday School. They won't be speaking on Sunday morning. They are going to sit down and talk about what our society can do to better itself, about our role as leaders in the world. They aren't teaching theology, just talking about their vision for the nation.

The Sunday platform should be reserved for teaching from the Scriptures. This isn't a "Sunday platform" for these guys. How can Rev. Warren look like he's endorsing both candidates? No realistic person will think he's doing that. He is seek to influence them.

Let's not get into an old covenant perspective of the church building here. The idea behind the New Covenant is that God took us out of the Temple and put the temple in us. Let's not worship a room.

I know Rev. Warren is a sore point for many around here. But what if he really is God's annointed messenger for this generation? I mean really, what if?

 

And this is what happens when you fail to fall on your knees at the alter of RW around here. Heaven forbid his methods or theology be questioned.

 

...and you have supplied another

I have not seen anybody worship this man, and your comment was uncalled for and out of line. Accusing us of idolatry is grounds for dismissal here on the BB.

 

I think I forgot smilies in my earlier post to communicate the cordial nature of my typing...my apologies. I'll do better, I'm just talking here too...these acursed keyboards don't reflect vocal inflections awfully well. :laugh:

I would think that they will be asked questions about their vision for America, where they believe we are headed, and what they choose to do about. Nothing to be dishonest about imho.

I guess we define politician differently here. That's perfectly okay, I was attempting humor. Pastors engage in politics all too often, it's okay to say that too. Politics isn't dirty it is just politics. All of our churches have some degree of politics involved and pastors have to navigate them. Doesn't make them evil. It's not bad, it's not good, it just is.

Agree to disagree...sounds fine to me.

My comment above was meant a little less severe than it was taken. My apologies if there was an underlying tone that wasn't received well. Some of you comments above have you rhetorically going at it with Rev. Warren. Wouldn't want to be confused there. I believe what he is doing with the PEACE plan and this is indeed a major accomplishment, particularly since he isn't making any money off of it but leveraging his God given influence to make this world a better place.

I just think your use of 2 John is not in keeping with the intention of the event. Rev. Warren isn't inviting these guys to teach Sunday School or preach from the pulpit. They are going to engage in a frank and honest exchange of ideas. I applaud any man or woman who gets people to do this. It is hard in this day and age for certain. (smiley here too, but the board won't let me put in)

Well the worshipping a room thing wasn't aimed at you, but a general comment. I can understand if you don't agree with someone, I disagree with many people often...and agree with many just as much. What we must be careful of is be overly castigating towards someone who clearly has the hand of God on his life. We can't deny that something must be up with him. I don't particularly care for Rev. Warren's purposes for church or his text, The Purpose Driven Life. Just not my thing, but I will stand behind his character (which many, not aimed at you, on this board are happy to desmirch) and God ordained position (he is a sound Bible teacher.) Finally I'm not making false dichotomies. There are many options. We can openly disagree and agree about positions and know there are many other positions available. In my text above I not done so, we are just beginning our conversation and maybe this medium is not a happy one to have such a conversation.

Well blessings on your journey.

 

I like PilgrimPastors take on this issue.

Have Christians have lost their senses?

At one time Christians were noted for their benevolence,
... but not now!

Now the government and liberal organizations take taken up that banner.

SHAME ON US!

We dishonor Christ by turning our backs on those in need.
Christ is dishonored by the constant bashing of those Christians that help the poor.

Remind the believers to submit to the government and its officers. They should be obedient, always ready to do what is good.
They must not slander anyone and must avoid quarreling. Instead, they should be gentle and show true humility to everyone.

Once we, too, were foolish and disobedient. We were misled and became slaves to many lusts and pleasures. Our lives were full of evil and envy, and we hated each other.

But—“When God our Savior revealed his kindness and love, he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit.
He generously poured out the Spirit upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior.
Because of his grace he declared us righteous and gave us confidence that we will inherit eternal life.”
This is a trustworthy saying, and I want you to insist on these teachings so that all who trust in God will devote themselves to doing good. These teachings are good and beneficial for everyone.

Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These things are useless and a waste of time.
Titus 3:1-9 NLT

Rob

 

I fully agree with what you're saying. But this action by Rick Warren pales along side the open support of the Republican party and its candidates for the last 25 years or so and the vehement attacks made on those who supported other candidates. I was told twice to my face that a Democrat cannot be a Christian.

I think Christians should be knowledgeable about the issues but should leave voting decisions up to the individual. I hope Rick isn't holding this conference on church property. I wouldn't support that.

 

Oh well, it was civil for a while...

 

Just exactly who is us?

 

Thanks, Lou

I personally avoid the man and his ministry, Marcia.

 

Those you are accusing of worshipping Rick Warren.

 

Thanks.

I see this played out in both Liberal and Conservative Churches. I am a Baptist Theologically who ended up somehow meandering my way, God's leading of course, into the pulpit of now my second Congregational Church Pastorate. Both of the churches I have served as senior (solo) pastor are former UCC (United Church of Christ) churches who pulled out of the UCC over their "current agenda" of the ordination of gay pastors and radical social change in place of preaching Christ for the most part... I need to stay on topic or I will write your ears off about that...

I have also been a part of very conservative Baptist Churches who implied, said, things would have led one to believe that G.W. was "God's Candidate" in the 2000 election.

Whether it is casting off the radical Christ-following found in the Gospels for a Liberal social agenda or it is declaring God's moral candidate from a pulpit intended to plead the blood of Christ and the message of hope and redemption to sinners, leaving behind genuine Christ-following for alternative agendas is a bad idea.

Having said that, clearly we do have a role to play in society, BUT it should first and foremost be about loving people into the Kingdom of God not pandering to any of the Kingdoms of this world; regardless of how good and noble that worldly kingdom's cause may be.

 

I agree that this is not nearly as ugly as what you have described. I am suggesting, though, that they are both part of the same disease, infection, and pulsing-puss-filled cyst which glares at me from the very face of the body of Christ...

The Church is so wrapped up in political ideology that it is largely blinded to the fact that collectively all of our picket signs about this thing and that make up a larger picket sign which boycotts Christ. In other words, in our very efforts to bring about "social change" - remember I am speaking about liberals and conservatives here - in our efforts to change society as a whole through political maneuvering, coalitions, and the like we are neglecting our primary task of looking like Christ on the Cross. When we get that one down, perhaps then we should form some Political Action Committees!

This plays out in VERY practical ways. Where does the gay person who is questioning his or her lifestyle, place in the world, relationship with God, go to seek answers on Sunday morning? Where do we recommend they go? Perhaps to their local UCC Church who will tell them that God made them gay and they should just embrace it and oh, by the way, our denomination is lobbying for "gay marriage!" OR do they go to their local "Fundy" (pardon the pun if you are one ) Baptist Church who may likely mention to them, "Our church is currently lobbying for the ban on gay marriage amendment!"

God rescue your Church from such diversions! I would suggest to you (us) that Christ carried no picket signs and changed the world. I would further suggest that the mustard seed of Mathew 13:31-32 was not a seedling for political or social change, but a seed of matchless worth (as I preached today and will have uploaded tomorrow night) which would be watered by Christ's blood and the blood of martyrs.

I am terribly afraid that we are horribly off track in the American Church. I am ALL for defending truth (see http://www.1stperu.org/pastorsstudy) but we must strive to look primarily like Christ and not the world.

 

Footnote:

I don't think anybody is trying to worship Rick Warren. We live in a media driven, sensational, celebrity marketed culture. Warren, for better or worse, is the Brad Pitt of Christianity... well, he certainly doesn't look like Brad Pitt... maybe Rodney Dangerfield :laugh: