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Featured "Righteous faith"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Dec 31, 2022.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    A question to ask yourselves is "Does God credit the faith of some humans as righteous faith?" See Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25.

    The answer of course is yes.

    How about does God ask fallen individuals to put their faith in Christ?

    The answer of course is yes.

    Does John 3:16 indicate everyone whose faith is credited as righteous faith will not perish?

    The answer of course is yes.
     
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Habakkuk 2:4, ". . . but the just shall live by his faith. . . ."

    Romans 1:17, ". . . For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. . . ."

    Romans 4:3-5, ". . . For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. . . ."

    Genesis 15:6, ". . . And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. . . ."

    James 2:23, ". . . Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: . . ."

    Romans 4:9, ". . . for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. . . ."

    Romans 4:22, ". . . was imputed to him for righteousness. . . ."

    Galatians 3:6, ". . . Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. . . ."

    Galatians 3:11, ". . . But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. . . ."

    Hebrews 10:38, ". . . Now the just shall live by faith: . . ."
     
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    All who have the gift of faith are justified by that faith, which God gave them.

    *Romans 3:21-28*
    But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
     
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The Biblical gift of faith: 1 Corinthians 12:9, ". . . To another faith by the same Spirit; . . ."

    Faith as one of the characteristics of the fruit of the Spirit: Galatians 5:22-23, ". . . But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. . . ."
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No answer will be forthcoming as to why God credits the faith of some individuals.
    No answer will be forthcoming as to "does God ask fallen individuals to put their faith in Christ?"
    No answer will be forthcoming as to "Does John 3:16 indicate everyone whose faith is credited as righteous faith will not perish?
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Pay no attention to those who equate the post salvation "gift of faith" with our pre-salvation righteous faith as credited by God. We do not receive the "fruit of the Spirit" until after we are transferred into Christ's spiritual body and then sealed with the indwelt Holy Spirit.
     
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Pay no attention to anyone who imagines saving faith exists before God makes a person alive and gives that person faith, which is credited to them as righteous.
    Ever and anon the op lifts up man as the cause and God as the effected party. Such a disrespect of God's glory should be considered anathema.
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Mark 5:36. "Do not be afraid, only believe.' Unless of course God does not credit your faith as righteousness, in which case you should be very afraid indeed.
    Acts 16:31. 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.....' Unless of course God does not credit your faith as righteousness, in which case you won't be.
    John 3:36. 'He who believes in the Son has everlasting life.....' Just so long as God credits his faith as righteousness; otherwise it's no deal.
     
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Was the fact we are "chosen for salvation" through or by way of faith addressed in this denial of the obvious? Nope.
    Were the questions answered? Not with a yes or no.
    Did I lift man up or is that yet another false charge?
    Did I disrespect God's glory or did AustinC disrespect God's word.

    The above post of denial, deception and disparagement is nothing to write home about.
     
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Nope, I don't deny that God saves his elect by grace and gives them faith to believe, which is credited to them as righteousness. (Just as God did with Abraham and all the saints.)

    I do not create two different types of faith. I do not create a "faith" that humans have, before salvation, which God evaluates and decides as to whether that human created faith is credited or debited to the human.
    You have denied salvation by grace and promoted merited salvation by credited faith.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another failure to affirm God credits the faith of lost people per Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-25.
    You did not create the faith that humans have, before salvation, which God evaluates and decides as to whether that human faith is credited as righteous faith. That is what God's inspired word says.

    It is a material false statement that I have denied salvation by grace through credited faith, that is what you deny.
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    A question to ask yourselves is:

    "Does God credit the faith of some humans as righteous faith?" See Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25.
    The answer of course is yes.

    How about does God ask fallen individuals to put their faith in Christ? See John 6:29
    The answer of course is yes.

    Does John 3:16 indicate everyone whose faith is credited as righteous faith will not perish?
    The answer of course is yes.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here we have the false claim that "to believe" is determined by human profession, rather than God's assessment.

    And note that John 3:36 actually says He who believes "into" the Son has everlasting life, thus a direct acknowledgement that God's assessment is the one that counts.

    Matthew 13 teaches of soils #2 and #3 which "believed" the gospel to a degree, but that "belief" did not result in everlasting life. Again teaching it is God's assessment that counts.
     
  14. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I think what throws people off is your use of "righteous" in front of faith. Faith can be misplaced or in the wrong thing and maybe deficient in other ways and reams of theology have been written on that. But "righteous" to most people tends to mean that there is some kind of moral merit in faith itself which goes against the very concept of what faith is. We sing "Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to Thy cross I cling". That's faith and if you are saying that that is the kind of faith God accepts then I guess it's OK but the word choice is confusing.
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I claimed no such thing as you know very well. Salvation is of the Lord (Jonah Jonah 2:9; Titus 3:5; Revelation 7:10). The verses from Titus tells us that our salvation is 'according to His mercy' and involves us being born anew by the Holy Spirit.
    When you start appealing to the Greek you are like an elephant trying to climb a tree. Why does the use of eis ('into') suggest that God conducts an assessment of our faith after we have believed? Also, in Acts of the Apostles 16:31, the word used in epi, not eis. The semantic range of Greek prepositions is vast, and trying to spin your theology out of one of them is crazy.
    Not at all. In those cases, first of all, the is no mention of the words 'believe,' 'belief' or 'faith.' But in any case, the people's reception of the word was not judged by God and found to be substandard; it did not endure, and at the judgment would be found to be non-existent. 'He who endures to the end will be saved' (Matthew 24:13 and it is God's elect who will do so (Matthew 24:24).
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Martin, I wish you would discuss my views, and not your strawmen.
    1) You claimed a person would not be saved when they believed. Stand up for your statements.
    2) Salvation is of the Lord is not at issue. Salvation being according to mercy is not a issue.
    3) Why attack my use of Greek rather than the fact "eis" means "into."
    4) Did you address all the verses that say believe into something?
    5) Did you pretend the view into means something other than in is my view and not a widely held view among scholars?
    6) Did I say in Acts 16:31 the word translated "on" means "into?"

    Martin, I teach the truth.

    Here is just one of several views concerning believing into Him.
    How Do I Believe into Jesus Christ? - Holding to Truth
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The phrase "believe into" is found about 15 times in the NT, in 11 verses written by John, one by Matthew, one by Luke, and two by Paul. The elephant in the room is did God inspire the use of "into" to present a distinction from on or in? I think yes. When the idea is when God credits the belief as righteous faith, the person believes into Christ.

    If we want to stick with belief in, then credited belief in is usually indicated by the use of "into." Anyway, that is a widely held view.

    We do not come to "righteous faith" necessarily all at one, some of us grow into our faith over time. You could say, during the process what we have is righteous, but more is needed. Someone growing into righteous faith could be said to be "entering the kingdom" yet obvious would not have entered. I think Matthew 23:13 presents such an example.

    Similarly I think in Matthew 18:6 where "little one" are said to be "believing into" Him, I think Jesus is saying they are in the process of growing into righteous faith.

    In Acts 19:4, the idea is for people listening to John the Baptist to "righteously believe in" the One coming after him.

    In Romans 10:14 I think the idea is people cannot call on whom have not "righteously believed."

    In Philippians 1:29, the idea is not only has God allowed them to "righteously believe" in Him but also to suffer on His behalf.
     
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Apparently you do not grasp that the faith spoken of in Romans 4 is the faith that God gives to those whom He makes alive with Christ.
    You, very mistakenly, teach of a faith that is not from God being the faith that God credits as righteousness and then moves to save that person.
    Van, your teaching is...merited salvation with no grace given. You refuse to see it or accept it, but any discerning Christian sees it and sends up the red flag of warning because your teaching is not the Gospel.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The inspired word says Abraham's faith, and so it is ludicrous to say it means God's faith which God then credits as righteous faith. If it was God's faith it would already have been righteous faith.

    Your rewrite of scripture is what is mistaken.

    Your claim our faith, which is worthless filthy rag faith merits salvation is also ludicrous. We are saved by grace though our credited faith, not saved by grace then given faith. Stop rewriting the entire gospel!
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    It is not ludicrous to say that God gave Abraham faith to believe.
    It's ludicrous to teach that Abraham drew faith from his wretched soul and molded it into a righteous faith that God declared righteous and thus saved Abraham because of it. That is truly ludicrous and you are the one teaching such a ludicrous doctrine that is graceless.
     
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