1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Romans 2:28-29 - who are God's chosen people

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Aug 21, 2005.

  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    55
    LE

    Read Deuteronomy 30:1-3; As a favor to you I will save some time.

    1. And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
    2. And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
    3. That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

    Now if you can tell me that all the people that came back to Palestine were Christian Jews then I will say that God brought them back instead of the UN. :D [​IMG]
     
  2. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    My friend, that is certainly nothing to be grinning about. I apologize to the readers of this forum for your statement. [​IMG]
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    55
    My friend, that is certainly nothing to be grinning about. I apologize to the readers of this forum for your statement. [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]What is the answer to the question?

    As far as the grin LE I use that or some combination thereof in about 90% of my posts. It has nothing to do with the fate of unbelieving Jews.
     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    55
    My friend, that is certainly nothing to be grinning about. I apologize to the readers of this forum for your statement. [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]From your response can I assume that you believe unbelieving Jews are consigned to the Lake of Fire? If they are God's chosen people how can he assign them to such a fate for eternity?
     
  5. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have never ever confused the Jew's status as God's choosen people with whether they are saved or not. Why do so many try to tie the two together? And you are forgetting that there are saved Jews. Many of them.

    They were chosen to carry out a mission that continues to this day.

    Do you think America was chosen for anything. Does the fact that there are those who do not believe have anything to do with it?
     
  6. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Me, neither. They are separate issues.
     
  7. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
  8. What happens to unsaved Jews is exactly what happens to everyone else who isn't saved DUH

    Doesn't change the fact they are still Gods chosen people
     
  9. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    0
    The purpose of 1948, the declaration of Israel become nation by United Nation under Zionism Movement. Is to set the plot to draw MANY Jews return to 'Israel' again from other nations. For to kill all Jews as Satan desires. There will be another Holocaust II according as Matthew 25:15-21 warns to last generation of Jews who are dwelling in Judea area.

    Zionism Movement is behind of anti-semetic. Also, it is behind New World Order.

    God does not actual bring Jews back to Israel. God ALLOWS Satan to drawing Jews even also Christians move to Israel, for the purpose of persecution and coming of Armageddon too.

    I know, many amillers include OldRegular might not agree with me about Middle East in the end times.

    But, Bible teaches us, God only have ONE group, either Jew or Gentile whosever in Jesus Christ is ONE family of God, not divided according to Ephesians chapter 2 through calvary.

    Romans 2:28-29 has do nothing with Israel as "nation". It speaks of the diffference between spiritual and natural of Jew in the picture of salvation and lost. same with us as Gentiles.

    Romans 2:28-29 seems talking focus on Jews only. BUT, you have to read it by through context whole chapter 2 and 3, what the whole is talk about. Please look in Romans 3:29-30 say, "Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? YES, of the Gentiles also. Seeing it is ONE God, which shall justify the circumcision BY FAITH, and uncircumcision through faith."

    Paul made point, he told us, that the laws do not make us justify. Our faith makes us justify through Jesus Christ only. Also, Paul telling God's chosen people does not limited only to Jews, also to Gentiles TOO!

    RightFromWrong, you saying, God's chosen people ALWAYS Jews! Oh really? Look to 1 Peter 2:9 says, "But YE are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his light:"

    You think this verse is speak apply to Jews of Israel. Well, please read above - 1 Peter 2:5 says, "YE als, as lively STONES, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jeuss Christ."

    You still think this verse is speak to Jews of Israel. Well read below- 1 Peter 2:10 "Which in time PAST WERE NOT A PEOPLE, BUT are NOW the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, BUT NOW have obtained mercy."

    Whose of verse 10 speak to??? GENTILES!!!! Do you know where this verse refers to? In Ephesians 2:11-13,16 say: "Where remember, that ye being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promises, having no hope, and without God in the world: BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. And that he might reconcile BOTH(Jew and Gentile) unto God IN ONE BODY by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby."

    Paul telling us, that we as Gentiles were strangers, lost, not being chosen. During Old Testament time, Gentiles were aliens, strangers, were not chosen.

    BUT NOW, we as Gentiles are God's chosen people because of Calvary's result!!! God only have ONE family through Jesus Christ, either Jew or Gentile who believe in Christ, are on the same boat!

    Understand, being circumised in the Old Testament time is the picture of flesh or natural. Being circumised in the New Testament time is the picture of spiritual, as we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit - Ephesians 1:13.

    Understand??

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  10. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    0
    RightFromWrong,

    You say:

    Well, John chapter 15 and Romans chapter 11 disagree with you.

    In John chapter 15 tells us, if any perosn either Jew or Gentile, who do not endure or faithfully, shall be cut off. Same with Romans chapter 11 telling us, God removed uneblieving Jews off from the Olive Tree, because of their UNBELIEF. But, believing Jews are still on the same tree. God added Gentiles to join with believing Jews on the same tree. God CAN put a Jew back to tree again IF a Jew repents and believe on Christ again.

    Romans 11:25-26 telling us, when Gentiles are added unto the Tree join with Jews, SO, all(both Jew and Gentile) Israel shall be saved - to be comepleted at Christ's coming - shows the picture of the Church, that Christ is currently builting Church as He is preparing Church today. Till the end come, then Christ will be done with Church/Israel as all shall be saved.

    Romans chapter 11 say nothing about physical nation -modern Israel. Romans chapter talking about spiritual of both Jew and Gentile as individual which are in the tree - Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ IS the Olive Tree. Olive Tree IS cross.

    Anyone whosoever is in Olive Tree - salvation.

    Understand clear?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  11. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, but what do you make of Paul making known his dispensational gospel? This is not a theory that Paul had, but a revelation from Christ Jesus. Christian faith, ituttut
     
  12. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    When does Scripture speak of Jesus preaching to Gentiles? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]He doesn't, but OldRegular believes he did. Christian faith, ituttut
     
  13. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see you divide His Word correctly here. Can you see the two foundations built on the foundation of Jesus Christ, the cornerstone? Christian faith, ituttut
     
  14. Yeah basically the same thing I said ;)
     
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    55
    The initial promise, the initial revelation and the initiation in time of the Covenant of Grace [Genesis 3:15], is veiled to say the least and could not be understood without the continuing revelation of God. But God does not leave us without hope. As the Biblical history of man unfolds so does God’s purpose of redemption.

    If the Redeemer was to be born of a woman and that birth was to take place in history the way must be prepared. The Redeemer must be identified with God since He was to reconcile sinful man to God and since He was a man, the seed of a woman, He must be identified with the people of God. It was necessary, therefore, that God call out a people for His Name. Unto that people would be given the oracles of God [Romans 3:2] and through that people would come the promised Redeemer.

    In due time God called out of idolatry a man named Abram [Genesis 12:1-3], changed his name to Abraham [Genesis 17:5] and promised that in his seed all the nations of the earth would be blessed [Genesis 22:18].

    The Apostle Paul tells us that seed of Abraham through which all the nations of the earth would be blessed was Jesus Christ.

    Galatians 3:16, KJV
    16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    As time passed the lineage of the seed of woman was further defined: Abraham’s son Isaac to the exclusion of Ishmael [Genesis 17:18-22], Isaac’s son Jacob to the exclusion of Esau [Genesis 28:10-15]. Out of Jacob would come twelve sons and the infant nation Israel which God, consistent with His promise to Abraham [Genesis 15:12-16, moved to Egypt. In Egypt the lineage of the seed of woman was further defined: Jacobs son Judah to the exclusion of the eleven [Genesis 49:8-10].

    Under God’s providential care that nation of some 70 people [Genesis 46:27] which emigrated to Egypt grew to a great nation of several hundred thousand people. In time these people were placed in servitude to the Egyptians [Exodus 1:8-14], a servitude that caused them to cry out to God for deliverance [Exodus 2:23-25]. Under the leadership of Moses the children of Israel returned to Canaan, the land of promise, after residing in Egypt for about 400 years.

    In delivering the children of Israel, the Hebrew nation, from bondage in Egypt God brought the entire nation into a covenant relation with Himself. As with Abraham the covenant was unilaterally imposed by God with the promise:

    Exodus 19:5, KJV
    5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:

    and the requirement:

    Exodus 19:6a KJV
    6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

    To assist the Hebrew nation to become a holy nation in a pagan world God gave them the Ten Commandments, the Ark of the Covenant, and the tabernacle with its ordinances. The remainder of the Old Testament Scripture shows the utter failure of the nation Israel to meet the requirements of the covenant. Yet Scripture also shows that for ~1800 years this people, a chosen vessel through which the seed of woman is to be born, were under the providential care of God. Within that nation Israel there was at all times a people faithful to God, spiritual Israel, the Church in the wilderness [Acts 7:38].

    In all this the lineage of the seed of woman was preserved and further defined eventually leading to David, a man after God’s own heart. As the lineage was further defined so was the mission and identity of the seed. He would be born of a virgin, fulfilling the promise made in Eden:

    Isaiah 7:14, KJV
    14. Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    He would establish a kingdom that would stand forever not a kingdom that would last only one thousand years:

    Daniel 2:44, KJV
    44. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

    Daniel 7:13,14, KJV
    13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
    14. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.


    And He would suffer for the sins of His people:

    Isaiah 53:4-6, KJV
    4. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
    5. But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
    6. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


    Now all this was prophesied to take place in history and did take place in history. The Apostle Matthew writes:

    Matthew 1:21, KJV
    21. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    Luke tells us that the virgin conceived through the power of God and that the fruit of her womb, this seed of woman, was the promised redeemer, the Son of God.

    Luke 1:26, 27, 35, KJV
    26. And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
    27. To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name [was] Mary.
    35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


    The Apostle Paul in his letter to the Galatians writes:

    Galatians 4:4, KJV
    4. But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    The promised Redeemer, the Son of God, the seed of woman promised in Eden, is born of the virgin Mary and rejected and crucified by national Israel. Israel’s action in the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was according to the eternal purpose of God Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:[Acts 2:23, KJV]. The Kingdom they mistakenly thought was exclusively for them was taken away and given to another people:

    Matthew 21:43, KJV
    43. Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    What nation was to be the recipient of the Kingdom of God? The obvious answer is the Church. However, for evidence we turn to Scripture. We read in the Gospel of Luke:

    Luke 12:32, KJV
    32. Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

    The little flock is the Church, the called out ones, who would bring forth the fruits of the Kingdom. For those who would insist that the Church cannot be identified as a nation we turn to the writings of the Apostle Peter:

    1 Peter 2:9, KJV
    9. But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    There is no Scripture in the New Testament that indicates that the judgment pronounced against Israel in Matthew 21:43 was or ever will be revoked. Therefore, it still stands. The Kingdom belongs to the little flock, the Church .

    The mission of the nation Israel in God’s purpose of redemption had been accomplished. The elect of Israel will be brought into the Kingdom just as the elect of the Gentiles.
     
  16. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good for you.
     
Loading...