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Rome teaches "Works Salvation"

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Jerry Shugart, Nov 17, 2003.

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  1. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    So if you are saved but not sanctified, how do you enter Heaven since no unclean thing may enter?
     
    #41 trying2understand, Nov 18, 2003
  2. Jerry Shugart

    Jerry Shugart New Member

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    Yelsew,

    You might not be saved,but those of us who have believed the gospel are in fact already saved:

    "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God"(1Cor.1:18).

    Who are saved !

    In His grace,--Jerry
     
    #42 Jerry Shugart, Nov 18, 2003
  3. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    #43 Bro. Curtis, Nov 18, 2003
  4. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Then by your definition even dead pagans are "sanctified".
     
    #44 trying2understand, Nov 18, 2003
  5. Jerry Shugart

    Jerry Shugart New Member

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    trying2understand,

    Just as the believer is identified with the death of the Lord Jesus Christ,he is also identified with His life.That is the meaning of Paul's words that Christians are "sanctified in Christ Jesus"(1Cor.2).

    To "sanctify" means "to separate from things profane and dedicate to God"("Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon").

    We are "separated" in Christ Jesus when we are baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ (1Cor.12:13,27).

    We become so identified with the life of the Lord Jesus Christ that Paul says:

    "Even when we were dead in sins, hath made us alive us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus"    (Eph.2:5,6).

    Our identification with the "life" of Jesus Christ is so complete that Paul says that "we are members of His body,and of His flesh,and of His bones"(Eph.5:30).

    His life is our life:

    "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
    4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory"    (Col.3:3,4).

    That is why Paul can tell all true believers the following:

    "Who (the Father) hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son"(Col.1:13).

    In His grace,--Jerry
     
    #45 Jerry Shugart, Nov 18, 2003
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I said...

    Sanctification, to me, means that we overcome, with the help of the Lord, the willingness to sin.

    But sanctification is the work of the Holy spirit, and the result is that we live a life, down here, that more closely resembles the life of Christ.

    Does the Holy Spirit reside in Pagans ?

    Ron, you are pathetic.
     
    #46 Bro. Curtis, Nov 18, 2003
  7. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

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    So much for civility, Curtis.

    I think it's time I take one of those periodic BB breaks.
     
    #47 GraceSaves, Nov 18, 2003
  8. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Curtis, you left out the opening of your definition of santification.

    "Since sanctified means "can't sin", then only at death could we acheive this."

    Pagans would meet your definition too. If they are dead they ain't sinning either.

    BTW, where did you get your definition of sanctified? ie - can't sin?
     
    #48 trying2understand, Nov 18, 2003
  9. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Go ahead with yer break, Grant. If you can't see that Ron twisted my words around, and lying about what I said, or won't admit he did it, then we got nothing to talk about.

    Don't let the cyber-door hit you in the butt on the way out.

    Yup, I tried to be civil. And look what I got for it.
     
    #49 Bro. Curtis, Nov 18, 2003
  10. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

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    Eye for an eye, right Curtis?

    Oh wait...
     
    #50 GraceSaves, Nov 18, 2003
  11. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Grant, we are trying to discuss something here, and Ron lied. If you deny this, then I can't think either one of you want to have a civil discussion.
     
    #51 Bro. Curtis, Nov 18, 2003
  12. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

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    Ohh, like the example you set on Dr. Bob's thread, right? :rolleyes:
     
    #52 GraceSaves, Nov 18, 2003
  13. LaRae

    LaRae Guest

    I guess that the Bible is wrong then when it says 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'.


    LaRae
     
    #53 LaRae, Nov 18, 2003
  14. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Curtis, are you not the person who has several times said that if someone is getting mad it must be because the truth is getting to them?

    I have not been mad, but it does appear that you are.

    I am merely trying to point out what I see as difficulties with your statements here.

    Not to offend, but it appears to me that you make it up as you go.

    I have looked and can find no definition of "santification" which even approximates "can't sin".

    Creating one's own definitions is poor form in a debate.
     
    #54 trying2understand, Nov 18, 2003
  15. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    As are lying, and twisting words, Ron.

    Grant, you say Bob's lieing, I say he's right on.

    Larae, good to see you. Haven't seen you 'round, of late.
     
    #55 Bro. Curtis, Nov 18, 2003
  16. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Having labled me as lying...

    please, point out my exact words.
     
    #56 trying2understand, Nov 18, 2003
  17. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

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    Alright. It's settled. The text of 1 Timothy does not contain the word "rejected."

    Because you hold to an obvious lie, I will no longer discuss with you. This is not a matter of interpretation or belief; it's an outright lie.

    Nice talking to you, Curtis.
     
    #57 GraceSaves, Nov 18, 2003
  18. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Promises, promises.
     
    #58 Bro. Curtis, Nov 18, 2003
  19. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Double post deleted
     
    #59 Bro. Curtis, Nov 18, 2003
  20. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

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    I hope everyone can see that Curtis is holding to a direct lie and is unrepentant. I'm too frustrated to deal with such things, so I'm stopping posting for the day. I hope that when I come back some people will have fessed up.
     
    #60 GraceSaves, Nov 18, 2003
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