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Salvation In the Millennial Kingdom?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Mar 19, 2006.

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  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    We are all heirs, but we have no inheritance?

    Matthew 25:34
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    </font>[/QUOTE]James_Newman

    You should quote the passage so as to show what happens to those on His left hand:

    Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    So we have two classes of people, those on His right hand of whom He says:

    1. Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

    and those on His left hand of whom He says:

    2. Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    So if we are on His right hand we inherit the kingdom. If we are on His left hand we inherit everlasting fire. No in between so it looks like you prove my point. Or was it Brother Bob's point?
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    We have strayed far afield from the original object of this thread, namely: How are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?.

    This Forum is composed of a large number of dispensationalists, perhaps a large majority. I ask a serious question which should be of paramount importance to these people. Now whether I believe in an earthly millennial reign is not the issue. If dispensationalists have a viable doctrine they should be able to answer the above question. So far no one has seriously attempted to do so. All they have done is perform an unbiblical dance around the other questions that I posed in the OP.

    So I ask again a very serious question: How are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom? Must I assume that dispensationalists are unable to defend their doctrine on a very basic issue, Salvation?
     
  3. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    God uses the AC as a "ROD" to chastise Israel for rejecting him, (Jesus), the "ROD" inflicts "STRIPES" in their "FLESH", a literal death for salvation rather than a "Spiritual death" as for the church, Jesus suffer the "STRIPES" for the church in his flesh.

    Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin (flesh) might be destroyed,

    Ps 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

    Ps 89:30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

    31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

    32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

    Isa 10:5 O Assyrian,(AC) the rod of mine anger, and the staff (leadership) in their hand is mine indignation.

    Re 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    God does to Israel the same thing Paul said to do for someone in the church who rebells against God.

    1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    The "Church", body of Christ, being the firstfruit, or first born, is protected from this death by the "Blood" of the "Passover Lamb",

    this is why the church is "rapture" and "literally" will "PASSOVER" the trib.
     
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    OldReg, did you see my post on the previous page?
    We were told that we could find what life is like in the Mill. in Eze 40-47. There it lays out how sins are to be atoned for.
     
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    OldReg, did you see my post on the previous page?
    We were told that we could find what life is like in the Mill. in Eze 40-47. There it lays out how sins are to be atoned for.
    </font>[/QUOTE]These chapters deal primarily with the rebuilt temple? and the restoration of the levitical priesthood and the sacrificial system. I assume that the following Scripture are what you have in mind to obtain Salvation.

    Eze 44:13 And they shall not come near unto me, to do the office of a priest unto me, nor to come near to any of my holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.

    Eze 44:21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.

    Eze 44:22 Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.

    Eze 44:30 And the first of all the firstfruits of all things, and every oblation of all, of every sort of your oblations, shall be the priest’s: ye shall also give unto the priest the first of your dough, that he may cause the blessing to rest in thine house.

    Eze 45:19 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.

    Eze 40:42 And the four tables were of hewn stone for the burnt offering, of a cubit and an half long, and a cubit and an half broad, and one cubit high: whereupon also they laid the instruments wherewith they slew the burnt offering and the sacrifice.

    Eze 44:11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

    Eze 46:24 Then said he unto me, These are the places of them that boil, where the ministers of the house shall boil the sacrifice of the people.

    So we have Jesus Christ sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem of whom God speaks as follows:

    Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

    Hebrews 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

    God also tells us through the Apostle Paul:

    Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

    And you tell us the old sacrificial system with the Levitical priesthood is going to be reestablished. Sheer nonsense! but just another nail in the coffin of the mythology of Darby/Scofield!
     
  6. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    You may assume that when you ask a question in an asinine manner that many people will not respond to you directly.
     
  7. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    James,

    "Inherit the kingdom" of Matt. 25:34 does not give us the hint that it is so called, temporary period or a thousand years.

    Oldregular was right, notice there is comparing of Matt. 25:41 and 25:34, on two sides, Christ shall tell to the goats of Matt. 25:41 that they shall be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE, simple means eternality punishment! Verse 41 does not giving the promise to goats, that they shall be finally released out of the fire beyond the judgment day. Also, Matt. 25:34 - Christ shall saying to the sheep on the right, that they shall enter everlasting life. The only way that you can understand Matthew 25:31-46, simple Christ shall divided all nations of the world into two classes - believers and unbelievers, and there will be the FINAL destiny for their consequence. At the last verse of Matthee 25 telling, that all goats shall be cast into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT, all sheep shall into LIFE ETERNAL.

    Very, very simple as what Christ saying, you have to accept as what He saying.

    There is NO purgatory in the Bible anywhere!

    By the way, I am amill. I am aware that most amills hold unconditional salvation or security salvation. Because of many amills are reformed and calvinists.

    James Newman does believe in unconditional salvation or security salvation same as what Joey Faust believes.

    Many areas I do AGREE with Faust's teaching & Newman's belief on many passages from the Bible did talking about warnings with conditional at the judgement day is apply to us as followers or believers.

    For many years myself used to believe in unconditional salvation or security salvation, as what the baptist believes. Till five years ago, I found many troubles and disturb my belief of security salvation from the Bible. For example - Matt. 25:30 is the mostly disturb verse ever I see in my life. Because of this verse speaks loudly conflict with baptist's teaching of security salvation.

    I determined rather to listen what God's Word saying than what baptists saying.

    Partially I do agree with Faust & Whipple saying of Matt. 25:30 that unfaithful Christian shall be cast away into fire at the judgement day. But I do not agree with them that, they saying it is temporary. No way that they can prove it is a temporary, because Christ never saying it is temporary. I consider that Whipple & Faust's teaching easily being identify as Christian's purgatory, as they borrow from Catholic's leftover of its doctrine on purgatory.

    Most Christians easy understand that Matt. 25:30 speaks of everlasting fire, because of their common sense that Christ shall rebuke to them at the judgement day. Yet, many Christians like baptists are afraid of Matt. 25:30, even many pastors refuse to preach on this verse to the congregation, because it is so obivously conflict with security salvation doctrine.

    Soon I will make other post on this topic relate with millennial salvation, I will show you verses why there shall be NO salvation after the coming of Christ.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  8. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    "WHY" would God turn the "flesh" of one person over to Satan for it's destruction, and cast the Soul of the next person into Hell, for the same offence, "Rebellion"???

    1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    You're doctrine isn't going to be right until you separate the "flesh" and "Spirit".

    Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    The "word of God" can "Separate" a "saved soul" from a "Body of sin", (Flesh) and so can God's chastisement, if necessary.
     
  9. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    OldRegular and DeafPosttrib,

    You guys are assuming two things without proof.

    One assumption states there will not be a 1000 year literal reign of Christ on earth DURING
    which time the Martyrs alone will "serve God
    in the Temple of heaven and be shepherded by
    the Lamb". Rev.7:15-17; Rev.20:4.

    The only reason for "revealing" the future
    reign of 1000 years is that Martyrs "serve God in heaven" while those who survive to the End "will reign on earth over the nations".
    That reign does not begin until after Rev.15:4
    and Rev.11:18 and Rev.19:15!!

    The Martyrs begin their reign as of Christ's
    return to earth. That reign must occur while
    the temple continues to exist in heaven and
    day and night continue on earth. For when the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven, the Temple and days and nights cease to exist for
    those who inherit heaven!! Rev.21:22-25.
    _______________________________________________

    Your second assumption is that God will separate
    the nations at the time of Christ's return. At
    that time, the criteria for eternity in Hell will NOT be that of how the goats treat the
    "least of His brothers" (a work's salvation); but whether they have believed in Christ as
    Savior from sin (a faith salvation).

    During the Millennium, there is no need for
    faith; for "all will know the Lord, from the
    least to the greatest". Heb.8:8-12. But those
    who are saved (the sheep nations) will NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven; they inherit
    the kingdom on earth!

    The sheep nations do not inherit the Kingdom on Earth until the end of the Millennium when Satan is released to reveal the "goat" nations. The
    goats are then separated and cast into Hell. Only the beast and false prophet remain in Hell during the Millennium.

    The sacrifices will be kept by both the sheep
    and the goats during the Millennium or they
    will receive no rain for their crops. Zech.14:
    16-21. Keeping the sacrifices does not save
    anyone; but keeping the sacrifices at least shows an outward obedience for blessings.

    The final test is when Christ separates the
    sheep and goats at the end of the Millennium; not because of "faith for salvation" but based on how they treated the sheep.

    Forever, thereafter, the "will of God will be
    done on earth as it is in heaven".

    The nations saved during the Millennium will
    inherit the kingdom on earth! Matt.25:32-34;
    Rev.21:24-26. They must continue being healed
    by the leaves of the tree of life by entering
    the New Jerusalem at any time from the earth. Ezek.47:12; Rev.22:2,14.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You may assume that when you ask a question in an asinine manner that many people will not respond to you directly. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Will you please tell me how I asked the question in an asinine manner or is this just another excuse for your inability to answer the question?
     
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Can you show me a passage of Scripture that shows that Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years?
     
  12. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Can you show me a passage of Scripture that shows that Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years? </font>[/QUOTE]Read Revelations 20: 2-10, 9-10 especially, the fire come "DOWN" from Heaven, so evidently the people it "devours" are not "IN HEAVEN", so where are they???
     
  13. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Some Christians believe there shall be salvation during millennial kingdom beyond Christ's coming. They need solid evidence or proof from the Bible to prove it.

    There is not a single proof verse find anywhere in the Bible saying there shall be other opporunity or chance for a person to become saved beyond the end of the age or Christ's coming.

    Matthew 28:19-20 - "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatosever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD. Amen."

    Christ commands us, we must go and preach the gospel to the world, and behold, He is always with us TILL THE END OF THE WORLD.

    Matthew 24:14 - "And THIS gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then SHALL THE END COME."

    Christ tells us, we are preaching the gospel of the eternal life and wonderful news of Jesus Christ & salavation, this gospel will be continue reach to all nations of the world TILL the end of the age to come.

    Dispensationalism teaches there are seven ages from creation to millennium: 1. Innocence 2. Conscience 3. Civil Government 4. Promise 5. Law-Israel 6. Grace -Church 7. Millennial Kingdom

    I realized that premillennialism is merge with dispensationalism because of salvation issue. Dispensationalism teaches there is different kinds of salvation plans throughout seven ages. It teaches, during Old Testament period, there was no grace, they were keeping the law with faith. It was conditional salvation. When Christ came to earth for to died on the cross, then we are now under the grace, not under the law anymore. Also, it teaches, when the Holy Spirit lefts as the Church raptured. Then, the grace will be gone. These people who will miss rapture, and not have chnace to receive the grace. So, theey have to keeping the golden rules, stay faith in Christ, refuse receiving the mark, neither worship the beast. They will have difficult times ahead without grace, will face conditional salvation.

    Also, it teaches, when Christ comes, these people who will miss rapture, and shall be survived and remain left with flesh or body, who refuse receive the mark or worship the beast, shall enter into millennial kingdom for ANOTHER chance of their salvation beyond Christ's coming. These shall have animal sacrifices during millennial kingdom, and will be forced to worship before their King-Jesus. Many will be die during millennial kingdom.

    These are unbiblical, and these are man-making doctrine.

    The Bible tells us, there is the only two ages of God's plan from the creation to the end.

    They are called, "This age" & "Age to come".

    Right now, we are in this present age, it have been occuring since from the creation to today. This present age shall be end by follow at the coming of the Lord. Then the next age to come shall be eternality.

    There are list of verses in the Bible mentioned of "this age":

    *Matthew 12:32 "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world,..."

    *Matthew 24:3 - The signs of this present age will proceed toward the end

    *Matthew 28:20 - Christ always be with us TILL the end of the age

    * Mark 10:30 - The present age is an age of homes, fields, jobs, and families

    * Luke 18:30 - Material rewards of this present age

    * Luke 20:34 Marriage are given during this preseent age

    * Romans 12:2 -We do not compromising with this present wicked world

    * 1 Corinthians 1:20 - Philosphy of this present age

    * 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 - Widsom and rulers are of this present age

    * 2 Corinthians 4:4 - Satan is the prince or god of this present age/world

    * Galatians 1:4 - Evils are everywhere in this world/age

    * Ephesians 1:20-21 - Christ is now reign in this preseent age

    * Ephesians 2:2 - Evils are presence everywhere in this present age/world

    * 1 Timothy 6:17 - Our earthly or material of possession of this present age/world is temporary

    Titus 2:12 - We are commanded to walking godly life in this present age


    Now, there are list of verses mentioned of "age to come":

    * Matthew 12:32 "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whososever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, neither in the world to come."

    * Matthew 13:40 - the weeds will be thrown into the fire

    * Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30 - Eternal Life is Reward

    ***Luke 20:35 - There shall be NO marriage in the next age to come - because we(followers) shall be like as angels, because of resurrection to be like Christ's(1 John 3:2)

    * 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - People who doing evil things shall not enter eternality kingdom in the next age to come

    ***1 Corinthians 15:50 - Flesh and blood will NOT enter the eternality kingdom - next age to come

    * Galatians 5:20-21 Those who doing wicked life will not enter eternal life - next age to come

    * Ephesians 1:21 - Christ shall be continue reign in the next age to come - ETERNALITY

    * Ephesians 5:5 - People who doing wicked shall not enter eternal life - next age to come

    * 1 Thessalonians 2:12 We are commanded to walk godly life, so we can have eternal life - next age to come

    * 2 Thessalonians 1:5 - Our faith shall make us worthy to enter eternal life into the kingdom of God - next age to come

    * 1 Timothy 6:19 - Our store of our inheritance from above await for our eternal life with blessing and reward- next age to come

    * 2 Timothy 4:18 - THe Lord shall bring us to eternality kingdom of God - next age to come

    Also, the two ages is very clearly declared :

    Matthew 13:39 - The harvest IS the end of the age, and angels ARE the harvesters

    Matthew 13:40 - The weeds shall be gathering together and thrown into the fire and burned at the end of the age - Judgment day

    Matthew 13:49 - The angels will separate the wicked from the rightesous

    Very simple and plain.

    The problem for premills on Matt. 25:31-46. There is not a single verse saying, "a thousand years".

    Simple Matt. 25:31 says, "WHEN the Son of man shall COME in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

    Simple, this verse tells us, WHEN Christ shall come again with his angels, He shall sit on the throne, and to judge the world. Obivously, it tells us, great white throne/judgment seat of Christ shall be presence to the world immediately right after Christ comes.

     
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Can you show me a passage of Scripture that shows that Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years? </font>[/QUOTE]Read Revelations 20: 2-10, 9-10 especially, the fire come "DOWN" from Heaven, so evidently the people it "devours" are not "IN HEAVEN", so where are they??? </font>[/QUOTE]me4Him

    As usual you avoid the issue. I am surprised you did not post a chart. Neither of the passages you reference address the question:
    If they do then please provide a complete exegesis, not eisegesis, to show that Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years.
     
  15. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Can you show me a passage of Scripture that shows that Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years? </font>[/QUOTE]Read Revelations 20: 2-10, 9-10 especially, the fire come "DOWN" from Heaven, so evidently the people it "devours" are not "IN HEAVEN", so where are they??? </font>[/QUOTE]me4Him

    As usual you avoid the issue. I am surprised you did not post a chart. Neither of the passages you reference address the question:
    If they do then please provide a complete exegesis, not eisegesis, to show that Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years.
    </font>[/QUOTE]There's none so blind as those who refuse to see. :eek: :eek: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Amen, Brother ME4HIM -- Preach it! [​IMG]

    To see more see this site:

    http://www.ebccnet.com/lcharts/

    Clarence Larkin Charts.

    Clarence Larkin made prophetic charts just prior to WW1
    (1914-1918). These charts are still for sale.
     
  17. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Revelation 5:10
    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    Revelation 20:4
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    [​IMG] Yeah, but where does it say on earth for a thousand years?
     
  18. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    In the scriptures you listed.

    Rev 20:1 (KJV1611 Edition):

    And I saw an Angel come down from heauen,
    hauing the key of the bottomles pit,
    & a great chaine in his hand.

    The scene is DOWN FROM HEAVEN.
    I suggest earth as a better place than any
    other.

    Rev 20:3 (KJV1611 Edition):

    And cast him into the bottomlesse pit,
    and shut him vp, and set a seale vpon him,
    that he should deceiue the nations no
    more, till the thousand yeeres should
    bee fulfilled: and after that hee must
    be loosed a little season.

    The scene has from it THE BOTTOMLESS PIT.
    I suggged earth as a better place than
    any other.

    Rev 20:4 (KJV1611 Edition):

    And I saw thrones, and they sate vpon them,
    and iudgement was giuen vnto them: &
    I saw the soules of them that were beheaded
    for the witnesse of Iesus, and for
    the word of God, and which had not
    worshipped the beast, neither his image,
    neither had receiued his marke vpon their
    foreheads, or in their hands; and they
    liued and reigned with Christ a thousand yeeres.

    Undoubtedly, the earth is where the
    reign of Christ happens: the Millennial
    Messanic Kingdom.
     
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    And I saw thrones, and they sate vpon them,
    and iudgement was giuen vnto them: &
    I saw the soules of them that were beheaded
    for the witnesse of Iesus, and for
    the word of God, and which had not
    worshipped the beast, neither his image,
    neither had receiued his marke vpon their
    foreheads, or in their hands; and they
    liued and reigned with Christ a thousand yeeres.
     
  20. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    So have you decided to become a sadducee?
     
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