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Salvation of the Soul (Page One)

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Jan 29, 2007.

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  1. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Brother Bob you always have a way of proving my point when you quote Scripture. Thanks brother!

    By the way Steaver it was a simple question that I asked. There is no need to start another thread. Just answer the question. Here it is again:

    What is the purpose of living a holy, sanctified life if I can have all that this world has to offer and party with the devil and still get to rule and reign with Christ.

    By the way I finally put 1 and 1 together and figured out why you have so much hosility toward the gospel of the kingdom. It just finally clicked.
     
    #81 J. Jump, Feb 4, 2007
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Sure, after you.........

    Quote:
    Precept #6;
    The soul in connection with pronouns:
    [Leviticus 5:1]- “And if a SOUL sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether HE hath seen or known of it; if HE do not utter it, then HE shall bear HIS iniquity”.
    [Leviticus 5:2]- “Or if a SOUL touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcass of an unclean beast, or a carcass of unclean cattle, or the carcass of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from HIM; HE also shall be unclean, and guilty.”
    [Leviticus 5:3]- “Or if HE touch….”
    Do you get the implication here?
    The Word of God makes absolutely no distinction between SOUL and the pronoun HE or HIM. Verse 2 God says; “if a SOUL touch”. Verse 3 God says; “if HE touch”.
    This is consistent throughout Scripture. There would be no justification, in studying Scripture, for making any separation between pronouns such as he, ye, we, us, himself, thou, you, believer, sinner, etc, etc, etc, and the “living SOUL” that God created.

    Waiting on your refute!

    God Bless!
     
    #82 steaver, Feb 4, 2007
  3. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    The entire man was mentioned many times in OT as the soul. It also was mentioned as the soul itself too.
    The Lord is my sheppard, I shall not want.
    He maketh me to lie down in green pastures.
    He leadeth me by the still waters.
    He restoreth my soul.

    The soul that sinneth shall die but it can be restored by faith in God.
     
    #83 Brother Bob, Feb 4, 2007
  4. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Steaver why are you so unwilling to answer a simple question? I don't answer you nonsense, because it is pointless. I have proven your belief system fails you and you don't want to listen, so I'm not going to waste my time answering something that is moot.

    I'm just wondering what you tell someone when they say why in the world should I deny myself the pleasures of this life, if I can do whatever I want to and still get the benefits as all other of those foolish Christians that live right.

    I mean in your system it would be idiotic to live right, because you have taken away all of the consequences. Nothing matters so live and let live eh?

    Again it's just a simple question. Why would I want to live right when I can live like the devil and still rule and reign with Christ?
     
    #84 J. Jump, Feb 4, 2007
  5. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Actually James tells us that it is not by faith alone, but by faith that produces works.
     
    #85 J. Jump, Feb 4, 2007
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    After you.....:thumbs: ......I think everybody is waiting.....

    Quote:
    Precept #6;
    The soul in connection with pronouns:
    [Leviticus 5:1]- “And if a SOUL sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether HE hath seen or known of it; if HE do not utter it, then HE shall bear HIS iniquity”.
    [Leviticus 5:2]- “Or if a SOUL touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcass of an unclean beast, or a carcass of unclean cattle, or the carcass of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from HIM; HE also shall be unclean, and guilty.”
    [Leviticus 5:3]- “Or if HE touch….”
    Do you get the implication here?
    The Word of God makes absolutely no distinction between SOUL and the pronoun HE or HIM. Verse 2 God says; “if a SOUL touch”. Verse 3 God says; “if HE touch”.
    This is consistent throughout Scripture. There would be no justification, in studying Scripture, for making any separation between pronouns such as he, ye, we, us, himself, thou, you, believer, sinner, etc, etc, etc, and the “living SOUL” that God created.

    Waiting on your refute!

    God Bless!
     
    #86 steaver, Feb 4, 2007
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    #1. THAT IS THE only faith that is REAL according to James.

    As JIM pointed out earlier - the other option is "NO faith at all"

    For a reference to that - and my resonse to it --

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=950767&postcount=70

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #87 BobRyan, Feb 4, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2007
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    indeed - by "real faith" not "dead faith"
     
    #88 BobRyan, Feb 4, 2007
  9. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    #89 J. Jump, Feb 4, 2007
  10. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    edited . . .
     
    #90 J. Jump, Feb 4, 2007
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Ok, Jump has had plenty of oportunity to refute what God's Word shows us in Leviticus that anytime a person is spoken of in scripture God is speaking of the living soul that He created.

    "You" equals a "Soul".

    With this unrefutable foundation laid, we can now study and rightly divide all of scripture.

    Let's take the verse that has been the main focus for much of this debate, Jam 1:21¶Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

    Who is James speaking to? Jam 1:18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

    James is speaking to those who have been born of God. "Us" and "we" are pronouns for persons and God's Word shows us(precept #6 OP) that the "he" or "she" means a "living soul".

    Therefore James is speaking to saved souls.

    This cancels out any interpretation that James is instructing the believers(souls) that the soul is not yet saved.

    It is not the goal of this study to explain the message in every verse of scripture, although I have given my explanation in previous post for James 1:21, but rather it shows that the doctrine of "the soul is not saved at rebirth" is clearly false and not an option for interpreting the verse.

    God Bless!
     
    #91 steaver, Feb 4, 2007
  12. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Steaver you just can't bring yourself to answer the question huh. Oh well. You'll have to give an account one day and it won't be to me!

    You show more of your fallacy in your latest post. Now you are trying to say that a living soul is the same thing as a saved soul. There is nowhere in Scripture that makes that equation.

    Every person born is a living soul. So now are you a universalist? You would have to be to make the equation of living soul=saved soul.
     
    #92 J. Jump, Feb 4, 2007
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Reread it....

    All persons are souls. Not all persons are born of God.

    God Bless!
     
    #93 steaver, Feb 4, 2007
  14. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Why? It's going to say the same thing unless you edited it :laugh:

    So what's your point? Living souls does not equate to saved souls. There is no connection in Scripture that says that. And the OT passages that you gave don't even come remotely close to suggesting that. There is no passage of Scripture that says being born again is what saves your soul.

    Again when you compare Scriptures that talk about apples to Scriptures that talk about oranges you are going to make mistakes.

    And what amazes me, although it doesn't surprise me, is you want to just skip over the fact that you can't address James 1:21 and you want to move on as if people will continue to listen to what you have to say. And unfortunately I have to say that there will be some that will listen to what you have to say despite the fact that Scripture proves you wrong. But they will do so to their own peril sad to say.
     
    #94 J. Jump, Feb 4, 2007
  15. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Correct. Nor did I ever say they did.

    God Bless!
     
    #95 steaver, Feb 4, 2007
  16. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Then how do you equate James 1:18 as speaking to saved souls? Please show me one verse of Scripture that says being saved by grace through faith saves your soul.

    You try to make all these different connections and you keep backing yourself into a corner you can't dig out of.

    You said:
    Then you said:
    So all you have done is shown that James is speaking to living souls. Again that doesn't prove your point. If you are going to prove your point you are going to have to go further and show where living soul=saved soul.
     
    #96 J. Jump, Feb 4, 2007
  17. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    No, not all, but yes James is speaking to living souls. All people are living souls. Some souls are saved (born of God, born again) and some souls are lost.

    Which souls is James speaking to? Lost or saved? Jam 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

    You have already agreed that James is speaking to the saved persons, persons are living souls, therefore James is speaking to saved souls....

    As you can see from your quote, you believe these individuals are saved that James is speaking to. In this you are correct. Understanding now from God's Word, as pointed out in Leviticus that all individuals(people) are living souls, you can now see that the rest of your statement is wrong.

    Living souls DO NOT equal saved souls. I don't know where you get that from my post.

    Living souls DO equal ALL people.

    Some living souls are lost. Some living souls are saved.

    As has been established, we both agree that James is speaking to saved individuals. You should now understand from Leviticus that Individuals are living souls(not all saved, but all living souls).

    So anytime you speak of a person, whether lost or saved, you should now understand that you are speaking of a living soul.

    I'm not sure what is confusing you from my post. All people are living souls. This in no way states that all people(living souls) are saved. The qualifier for a saved living soul is born again by God, which is who James is speaking to. All others are lost living souls, or lost people.

    God Bless!
     
    #97 steaver, Feb 5, 2007
  18. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    For by grace are ye(living soul) saved through faith; and that not of yourselves(living soul): it is the gift of God: (Eph 2:8)

    Anytime you see a person spoken of you are seeing a living soul spoken of. Some will be saved souls and some will be lost souls.

    In Eph 2:8 you see the qualifier..."ye" (ye would be a living soul) are "saved through faith".

    You must understand what a person is, which is a living soul. This is proven in God's Word (Leviticus for one)

    God bless!
     
    #98 steaver, Feb 5, 2007
  19. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    You are drawing a flawed conclusion that is not supported in Scripture. Yes James is addressing saved individuals. Yes those individuals have living souls. No that does not equate to saved souls. There is nothing that can make that equation. There's nothing in the text of James and there is nothing in the rest of Scripture that says salvaiton by grace through faith saves the soul. If there is please provide it and we'll look at it, but it's going to be awfully hard to show since James 1:21 says the soul isn't saved yet.

    Actually a more Biblically correct way to state that is unsaved and saved. Lost doesn't equate to eternally damned. But this still doesn't prove your point.

    Again I don't understand why you are referring back to Leviticus. It doesn't say the soul is saved by grace through faith. It just establishes your point that all souls are living. And I don't dispute that. We agree on that, but that does not give you liberty to draw your own conclusions that souls are saved by grace through faith. If you want to make that connection you are going to have to do that with some Scripture that says that.

    Again can you please provide Scripture evidence to this statement of yours.
     
    #99 J. Jump, Feb 5, 2007
  20. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Once again your conclusion is flawed. "Ye" are also a body and spirit. And by your conclusion your body would have to be saved as well, because one is body, soul and spirit. We know without a doubt that our bodies are not saved yet. So you can not make a claim that because of a pronoun it means your soul is saved.
     
    #100 J. Jump, Feb 5, 2007
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