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Satan Crushed Shortly

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Feb 11, 2019.

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  1. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Its "thinketh"

    Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
     
  2. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    For further insight, I was just reading a devotional by R.C. Sproul (Ligonier Ministries). Sproul says that Paul gives this promise to crush Satan underfoot in the context of his warning about false teachers (Romans 16:17-20). His view is that the Romans might be troubled that falsehood might enter the Church at Rome, so this promise was to assure them that Christ will finally win the day. This promise reminded the Roman Christians that God alone brings victory. John Calvin comments on the passage that this promise refers not only to our final victory over Satan, but also to our present era. God often defeats our enemies, for which we should be grateful.
     
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Well whenever full preterism is brought forth an array of questions also comes forth Tom.

    One question brought forth if what is the source of horrific crime e.g. baby murder and why if all is fulfilled does God allow the bloodshed of the innocent if Satan is in the bottomless pit?
     
  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember saying the Jews are in charge of any thing. I was speaking of Christ second coming.
    MB
     
  5. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    For one thing, I do not believe all is fulfilled.

    1. It is given unto men once to die and then the judgment. Still future since we are still alive. But this is individual judgment as we meet God, each in our own time.
    2. What the Seven Thunders uttered may be yet future. I don't know.

    But just because a position does not answer all questions - or brings up other questions - does not invalidate the position.

    We all have questions we cannot answer:
    How can God create ex nihilo?
    How is the Trinity even possible?
    How can God die on the Christ and yet be in Heaven?
    How does a seed become a mighty tree?
    Electricity?
    Etcetera....


    I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question.
     
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  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Weak, weak response, Tom, nonetheless a response.

    Interesting though - a possible preterist futurist (or is it a possible futurist preterist?).
     
  7. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Partial Preterists also still look for the events that Tom mentioned.
    I meant to let you know that I am also praying for your brother. I am so sorry that you and your family are going through this very difficult time.
     
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  8. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I would rather hold a position that seems to go against what my eyes see than hold on to a position (my former futurism) that runs counter to so many Bible passages.
     
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  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Most involved in this blog would say the same of your view Tom - many many passages which are counter preterist.

    e.g. (just one of MANY):

    2 Peter 3
    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    The record of which cannot be found in secular or church history.

    personally I am looking forward to this earth being purged/renovated by the Lord's thermonuclear fusion

    13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    How in one's wildest imagination can one think that these things have happened without allegorizing the scripture to make it agree with ones private view? Especially to believe that righteousness dwells here in this WICKED EARTH!?

    However I admire your persistence and gentlemanly manner brother.
     
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  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

    That was 'the second coming', the final ending of the Old Covenant 'arrangement' [kosmos] and the implementation of the New Covenant 'arrangement' [kosmos].

    Question:

    28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. Heb 9
    37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

    Like 'shortly', do you think 'for yet a very little while' in actuality means thousands of years and still waiting?
     
    #70 kyredneck, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Great last line. That is the way we all should be.
     
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  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Who cares
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I do.
     
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  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I don’t
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Ohhhhh please, spare me the condescending
     
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    OK
     
  17. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Thank you.

    Unless you can recognize that Peter is indeed writing here in apocalyptical and metaphorical language it will be useless for me to continue. You don't need 'wildest imagination". You need a foundational knowledge of the Old Testament. You need especially, in Peter's case an understand how several times he draws from Isaiah. It is there you will find just what is meant by the "Heavens and Earth" that God created - well after the literal creation.

    And, yes, righteousness does dwell with evil. "They shall not hurt on my holy mountain", the lion and lamb lying down together, the child not being hurt by the asp. These are all, once again, from Isaiah.

    And the "elements" are not the physical elements we find in the periodic table. In the seven usages of that word it never clearly refers to that. It always refers to something intangible, basic tenets of a belief system. Three uses in the NT.
    1. Basic tenets of the Jewish covenant (2 Peter, Galatians)
    2. Basic tenets of Pagan religion (Galatians)
    3. Basic foundational tenets of Christianity (Hebrews)

    The elements are not physical elements. What elements did they even know back then? Earth, water, wind, and fire? Will fire melt into fire?

    "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? You observe days and months and seasons and years!"
    Gal. 4: 9-10

    Paul wants them to leave the "elements" behind. He is not asking for their annihilation.

    The constant struggle of preterism is to remind our futurists friends that the New Testament is deeply rooted in the oft-ignored Old Testament. A lack of knowledge of the Old translated to a lack of understanding of the New. And the style of the New Testament is not so radically different from the Old. Apocalyptic language, metaphors and, yes, allegory are often present. Paul even uses that word in Galatians.

    To see all this you do not need wild imagination. You just need a well-bound Bible that has the last part connected to the foundational first.
     
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  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Just being honest Tom.
    To me preterism is a theology of wild imagination. I do however respect it as one which has captivated many and continues to do so.

    Peter is not allegorizing as he uses the very literal event of the global deluge of water to compare to the ultimate end of the material universe under the curse of death (entropy) by fire.

    2 Peter 3
    5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
    6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
    7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    In terms of a non allegorical fire:
    Reading the complete account by Peter of the destruction by fire looks like a universal gamma burst (molecular fire).
    It is quite real and is coming just as sure as the rain of the global deluge which takes no imagination apart from reading the text.

    Gamma Ray Burst | COSMOS

    This one will be universal.
     
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    He has gone on. I will see him again.
     
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  20. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    So sorry for your loss, but so glad you have the comfort of knowing that you will see him again.
     
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