"Save yourself..."

David Lamb · Dec 19, 2007

skypair said:

Yes, re: 1Cor 15:38.

Yes, just as Rom 8:29-30 says -- Before creation God foereknew who would believe and predestined them to an election/sanctification. Is that clearer now? I was reading Job last night and Job said ~, "I know that you [God] have some purpose for me and that you will get it out of me one day." Yet those OT saints awaited the resurrection postrib to be "elect"/sanctified (Job 14:12-15, 18:25-28).

You must be a weak pray-er not to have noticed that God "reacts" to our prayers. ryaing: Like I told canadyjd, perhaps you worship a different God but when I was convicted of "sin, of righteousness, and of judgment," I prayed to receive Christ as my Lord and Savior and not only did I receive Him, I received the Spirit just as the OP text says. So does God "react" to prayer? Where would I be if I hadn't prayed?

First ask yourself: Is this the gospel message? or is it someone's analysis of how salvation works? Cause when you are talking with believers, you can state something without going through all the basic underlying assumptions. I find that much of Calvinism's bad sotierology comes from making passages out to be the gospel that are not and thereby "shutting up the kingdom against men," Mt 23:13.

What is the gospel, David? That God took on human flesh, lived a perfect life in our place, and then died and rose from the dead for our sin and the sin of the world ("for all have sinned..."). "What must we do [to grasp hold of this salvation]?" "Repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Spirit, save yourselves..." (Acts 2) That is the gospel. Paul gives it too in 1Cor 15:1-4. The jailer and family heard it, Acts 26:30.

You, by citing Jas 1:18, Eph 1, etc. show us God's side of salvation without ever letting us glimpse the gospel!

Yes, that all makes sense to me. And I am judging truth by its sense. Know why? Because God gave us revelation of Himself through words that make sense else we wouldn't understand and He would still be a mystery to us. Simple things that you stumble over like our own "in His image" trinuity of soul, spirit, and body are REVEALED, not concealed, through the word of God's own communication with us.

Same with the gospel. Apparently you take something entirely different than the what is revealed in the gospel passages of the Bible as being the gospel. You have my condolences if you didn't receive salvation like the 3000 did at Pentecost. or as the Philippian jailer did. or as the Ethiopian eunuch did who had to have Philip explain Isaiah's words to him (no "regeneration precedes faith" there, was there?). Calvinism is a sorry lot if they don't even know what the gospel is or haven't trusted God through just doing what the gospel says do.

Believers are divided by more than that -- read Rev 2-3.

But as to your remarks, it is quite revealing to me that you say Calvinists "repent of their sins." We all should do that but is that what "repent" meant in Acts 2:38?

NO! When one wishes to turn to God unto salvation he/she repents FROM SELF! Think of it this way, David --- You can be sorry for your sins unto repentance. That's called "the sorrow of this world [which] worketh death," 2Cor 7:10. "Godly sorrow" for sins is doing something about it -- changing your life. And that may appear to you to be our "track" to salvation.

Nope. It works salvation in this life alright (IF you are "elect"/being sanctified), but not in eternity because even godly sorrow can be self-driven. Turning from sins is NOT what the gospel contemplates as turning to God or converting.

Repentance unto salvation is turning from your own efforts to save and to keep yourself and trusting God's provision. I can remember thinking about the sins I ought to quit before asking God to save me. Thank God I didn't repent of sins instead of repenting of self! Instead, I gave them into His hands to deal with. I wasn't asking God to forgive my sins -- I was asking Him to forgive my SELF -- my trying to "climb over some other way" was one of them -- in Christ.

I know many church members who have repented of sins (which is all you can really repent of if you are already "elect."), and "turned over a new leaf," and think that is salvation. It sounds like that is your "gospel," eh?

skypair
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Well, I have tried to explain to you that Calvinists do not believe the things you keep saying we believe, but it is clear I have not succeeded. I am therefore going to leave it to someone who can perhaps state things more clearly than I can. Thank you, and God bless you.

skypair · Dec 20, 2007

DavidLamb...

So that's it? You're not going to clarify what relationship election has to the gospel? Do we need to know that we are "elect"/"chosen" or that we are saved?

skypair

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