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Featured Saved by Grace or Works?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    What is mercy?
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Why do you then add to the Gospel the requirements to keep the food laws, and to keep the Sabbath Day?
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Is it your claim that I wrote the Bible?

    Please do inform us as to which parts of the Word of God we are not allowed to believe or post -- in that case.

    "Do not take God's name in vain" -- Ex 20:7... do you "allow" that commandment of God??
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

    Note how often in the NT the term "good works" is used positively -- vs negatively
     
  5. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    God opens the eyes, convicts the heart, draws the soul, forgives the sins, imputes righteousness, imparts the Spirit, adopts as sons and daughters, indwells, inhabits, transforms, conforms, preserves, as Christ intercedes, the Spirit intercedes, the blood cleanses us from all sin, and we are changed from glory to glory into the image of Christ until the day when we will be like Him, for we will see Him just as He is.

    And IF we have this hope in us, we will purify ourselves just as He is pure and we will work out our salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God that works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
     
    #45 glad4mercy, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
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  6. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Good works have NOTHING to do with our JUSTIFICATION, nor with our regeneration, adoption, initial sanctification, etc. We are saved, justified, regenerated, adopted, set apart, etc. by faith ALONE. Good works follow, for Christ died to redeem a holy people, zealous of good works. We don't labor to be saved, we labor BECAUSE we are saved, IF we are really His.

    Hebrews 6: Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

    2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
     
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  7. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I think that we may have gotten our wires crossed. I wanted to know how you define mercy.
     
  8. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Would you mind defining "initial salvation"? Is there some other "salvation" in which good works do play a role?
     
  9. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    He never said anything about ‘initial salvation’.
    He said ‘initial sanctification’.

    “Salvation” is typically divided into three parts:
    1. Justification (by grace through faith, not of yourself)
    2. Sanctification (walking in Christ and the good works prepared by God in advance)
    3. Glorification (God finally making us perfect).
     
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  10. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Mercy in this context twofold. First, it means God doesn't give us what we deserve, and secondly it is the desire and act of God pulling us out of the pit, delivering us, healing us, sending His Son to die in our place, Jesus offering Himself for us, forgiving a debt we could not pay, pardoning the condemned, etc out of infinite love
     
  11. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Thank you, and well said!
     
  12. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    When this debt is forgiven is it permanently forgiven?
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Saints in heaven will certainly not be turning to wickedness.

    But before then it is possible .. free will being what it is.

    In any case better to accept the Bible on that one.



    Romans 11
    19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


    Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.
    32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
     
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  14. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Yes, but granting forgiveness is not the same as granting indulgences.
    The forgiveness of sins past are remembered no more. Permanently forgiven. Sins present and future are forgiven and cleansed conditionally, see 1 John 1:9. Not forgiven to be saved again, but forgiven to restore perfect, unbroken fellowship and fruitfulness. Sins committed after conversion hurts Fellowship and hinders fruit bearing.

    Our focus should be loving God and bearing fruit of love. If we do that, the rest falls into place
     
    #54 glad4mercy, Mar 21, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
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  15. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Did God know that you would have "future" sins when He elected you?
     
  16. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Of course. That is why the blood of Jesus CONTINUALLY cleanses me, and why God has provided confession, and why I have an Intercessor in heaven at the Father's right hand, correct?
     
  17. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Would you say that all of your sin was future sin to God?
     
  18. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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  19. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    That Brian, God's foreknowledge is exhaustive, and He transcends time, but He still ACTS IN TIME. He is intemporal, we are temporal. Our sins are temporal, His knowledge of them is intemporal. God forgives sin in time just as He saves us in time, just as He sent His Son in the fullness of time, though He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Did God arbitrarily select - elect you?

    "Elect" according to His foreknowledge

    1 Peter 1
    To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood:
     
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