Saved? How can we know?

Agreed!

Not so! We are not "called" to be "fruit inspectors", any more than we are "called" to be "tare pullers", which is actually what most really mean, with this.

We want this to be the case, but Biblically, there is no guarantee that someone will meet that 'undefined' standard, especially a 'babe in Christ'. That is why we are to disciple others and help them grow in Christ.

Partially correct, but see the above.

Unfortunately too many of us Baptists, follow the 'Baptist' version of "The Five "Ds".

1.) Draw 'em in to 'church'!

2.) Drag 'em down the aisle!

3.) Dip 'em in the pool!

4.) Drop 'em to the world!

5.) And then we stand in amazement at why some never grow, and Decide they were never really, wholly, completely, truly, genuinely, repentantly, (plus however many more adverbs one wants to inject, here ) saved in the first place!

Ed

 

Preach it, Brother Tony!

Ed

 

Biblical hope is the calm assurance that what Jesus promised He will accomplish, it is not in the category of hoping one wins the lottery. There is no cocky certainty in trusting the Word of God and His promise. God has said you can know if you are saved or not, that pretty much settles it. It has nothing to do with self, it has everything to do with the fact that God said it and He cannot lie.

Bro Tony

 

I believe we have to take a person at their professions until they show otherwise. If someone claims to be a believer, there is the matter of accountability. If they continue to walk in the way of the world, we are to treat them as an unbeliever. Whether they are or not is finally in God's hands, not ours.

Bro Tony

 

By the 'doctrine' proclaimed! The 'passages' about a wolf in sheep's clothing comes from Aesop's Fables, not Scripture, I believe, except as it relates to False Prophets. There is no such passage about one 'claiming' to be a brother or sister in Christ.

BTW, verses 16 and 20 in this pasage are the only two times 'you will know them by their fruits' is to be found in Scripture. AND the "them" refers back to "false prophets".

Scriptures that specifically speak of "false prophet(s)" are the following: [Jer. 14:14; 23:9; Lam. 2:14; Ezek. 22:28; Mt:7:15-20; 24:11, 24; Mk. 13:22; Lk. 6:26; Ac. 13:6; II Pet. 2:1; I Jn. 4:1; ("THE false prophet" Rev. 16:13; 19:20; 20:10).

There may be others. but these are they of which I am aware.

Ed

 

If there is no change then they have never received any thing.

Act 26:20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Mat 3:8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Mat 7:18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Does anyone every have any doubt at all???

 

Who's talking about cocky certainty? I deserve only one thing from God and that is eternity in the lake of fire. I KNOW I am not goign there. Why? Because Christ died for me. That is HIS doing, not MINE!

You CAN know, Amity. If you don't know, ask God to make it clear to you one way or the other.

D.

 

No thank you! Don't need to know! My little hope may be more precious than someone else's big fat certainty!


Mixtures of joy and sorrow I daily do pass through.
Sometimes I'm in the valley and sinking down with woe.
Sometimes I am exalted, on eagle's wings I fly.
I rise above my troubles and hope to reach the sky.

Sometimes I'm full of doubting and think I have no grace.
Sometimes I'm full of praising, when Christ reveals His face.
Sometimes my hope's so little, I think I'll throw it by.
Sometimes it seems sufficient if I were called to die.

Sometimes I shun the Christian lest he should talk to me.
Sometimes he is the neighbor I long the most to see.
Sometimes we meet together, the season's dry and dull;
Sometimes we find a blessing, with joy it fills my soul.

Sometimes I am oppressed by Pharaoh's cruel hand.
Sometimes I look o'er Jordan and view the promised land.
Sometimes I am in darkness, sometimes I'm in the light.
And then my soul is winged and upward speeds its flight.

Sometimes I travel mourning down Babel's ancient stream.
Sometimes my Lord's religion appears my only theme.
Sometimes when I am praying it seems almost a task.
Sometimes I find a blessing, the greatest I could ask.

Sometimes I read my Bible and 'tis a sealed book.
Sometimes I find a blessing whenever therein I look.
Sometimes I go to meeting and wish myself at home.
Sometimes I find my Savior and then I'm glad I've come.

Lord, why am I thus tossed, so tossed to and fro?
Why are my hopes thus crossed wherever I'm called to go?
O Lord, Thou never changest, and 'tis because I stray.
O grant me Thine assistance and keep me in the way.

O may Thy counsels guide me and keep me while I live!
In death be Thou my portion and then my soul receive.
To praise my blessed Savior and magnify His grace;
Bestowed on such a sinner, the chief of all the race.

There, with the holy angels that stand around the throne,
And saints of every nation, our voices joined in one,
We'll sound aloud the praises of our Redeemer God
Who saved us by His sorrow and washed us in His blood.

???

 

I love that Amity; Spoke like a true Primitive Baptist.

 

To quote the late, great comedian, Jerry "Curly" Howard, "Soitenly!"

But you have mis-read, unfortunately.
The point I was making refers to the "backloading" of salvation with works.

What I mean (and I think Lacy also, but "He/She is of age! Ask him/her!"), is the teaching that one must "work" in some way in order to receive salvation, and that salvation is not a matter of "by grace, through faith", but is "by grace through faith" after one "repents of sin" (whatever that means), "confesses that sin", "turns from the sin", "does works fitting", "Makes Jesus 'Lord of your life'"and then believes in Jesus, and is then and only then saved. The specifics will vary from one to another, but the end result is the same. Until one "improves" his lot, one cannot be saved. Sometimes this is called "meritorious works". That is faith plus works for salvation. That is "front-loading works" into salvation, IMO.

"Backloading works" is just the reverse order, but the result is the same. One is saved by "grace through faith", and these 'works', the 'repentance', the 'making Jesus Lord', all are either (A.) an integral part of this supposed 'faith', or (B.) an assured companion or following of the 'faith', and unless these 'works' are present, meeting someone's else's 'undefined standard', one was never really, geniunely, completely, repentantly, totally (as I said previously, add whatever additional adverbs one wishes to this mix) saved in the first place.
This is what I mean by "backloading salvation", by grace through faith with 'works'. "Same difference!", as we say in KY. Adding works to eternal salvation is still adding works, and tying it together, whether before or after the 'faith' occurs.

That is how I see it; any others can word it as they choose to comment.

Ed

 

Is Lacy a he/she? hmmmmmmm

 

"Hope " in the NT is the Greek words "'elpis" and "'elpizO". These words carry the force of complete and full assurance, and are unfortuantely obscvured in the english language by the modern usage of "a wish". My salvation and my assurance is far more than a wish. It is built on nothing less than the Word of God, and "Jesus' blood and righteousness." I would that yours is the same. I'm looking for "that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing" of the Lord Jesus.

Ed

 

Yea, amity; I don't think I need to tell you what else it says besides a hope, but it says if a man seeth why doth he yet hope for, but we hope for that which we have not seen and with patience wait for it. I think that explains more assuredly the meaning of what "hope" means. Also, our "hope" is the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

This is not a misunderstanding of the usage of that word, Ed. It is a reality. As someone has already pointed out, even the apostles did not have absolute certainty.

As I said, if you read my response, I am confident that some are saved. I cannot be certain of who. And why should I be?

How anyone can feel "certain" is a little baffling to me, I guess because it would seem on the face of things that it must mean they thought more highly of themselves than they ought. What possible experience would make someone "permanently certain"? I have had moments of near-perfect confidence, but not most of the time. I don't see it taught doctrinally, and I don't see it in ANYONE experimentally, either.

And what purpose would such confidence serve? What would be the meaning of faith be in the face of certainty? Why should we want certainty?

 

So Amity, do you get saved over and over again to be sure?

 

No, if I wasn't saved at Calvary then I am not.

So, please tell me more about this feeling of certainty.

 

You were saved at Calvary? Your skin looks really good for being so old...

I know I'm a child of God in the same way I know I'm my earthly father's child.

 

Must someone be born again to be saved? Jesus said yes. What does that mean? It means a total change in your life and the acceptance of Christ as Lord of your life. Call if "back-loading" if you must but that's the Gospel according to Jesus.

 

Why thank you, webdoggie, dear, how very sweet!

In fact, some have been utterly misled about natural paternity, too. (not you, of course... but you know it has happened pretty often to others.)

Others put a different interpretation on those scriptures, of course. How do you experience being "born again"?