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Saved through the bearing of children?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Deacon, Nov 29, 2002.

  1. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I’m studying through 1 Timothy (brought here by my pastors sermons and the “Deacon Responsibilities” thread a few weeks back). I’ve come across a verse that I’ve never felt I fully understood. I thought that before I turn to various commentaries, I would ask for your help.

    Key words so far identified in my study are Instruction and Order.

    1 Timothy 2:15 reads:
    Any thoughts/ideas?
     
  2. massdak

    massdak Active Member

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    Any thoughts/ideas?</font>[/QUOTE]i have read the verse and read some commentary, and the commentators are as unsure what it means as i am. sorry not much help here. but the commentary does suggest some possible meanings. it is probably safe to say a special grace is afforded to those who continue in faith and love.
     
  3. TheTravelingMinstrel

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    It says perserved, not saved.

    It could mean a number of things. Perserved from old age, perserved from disease.

    I don't really know fully either, just throwing out some thoughts.
     
  4. mountainrun

    mountainrun New Member

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    My NIV study Bible seems to say that, in the context of the preceding verses regarding Adam and Eve, woman AND men are saved through the birth of Jesus.
    After all, not all women have children and yet all who have faith are saved.

    MR
     
  5. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    I read this passage of "saved through child-bearing" (KJV) in the same vein as men "by the sweat of their brow". Even though these curses were placed upon humankind, we will be relieved from the agonies of these acts, if we continue in faith, love, holiness with sobriety. No more, no less.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    LOL, from a woman here...

    Childbirth is difficult. Women die. Children die. Things happen that are sometimes incredibly painful.

    It may be that Paul is saying something to the idea that the faithful,loving etc. woman will be saved when going THROUGH this ordeal.

    I know it was supposed to kill me -- they had me hooked up to every needle and tube and moniter that hospital had to offer. Scott was born after only four hours of labor and delivery with no complications at all -- except he was so big I have teased him about getting up, walking out of the delivery room and saying "Bye Mom, see ya' later!"

    Now I was not born again at the time -- that was still a few months or weeks away. But I bring it up to mention that pregnancy and childbirth are often still beset with dangers to mother and child.
     
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member

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    The only way that I see that a woman is saved in childbirth... Is that the woman Mary brought forth Jesus our Lord and Savior who saves all his children who God gave him... Brother Glen :cool:
     
  8. donnA

    donnA New Member

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    Helen, not sure just how much men can understand child birth. I had 36 hours the first time, and a c-section, and 10 hours the last time, another c-section, and we both nearly died.
    What this verse means I don't know, but I have heard what Tyndale said before as to the meaning of this.
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    2:9-2:15 is the context.

    A parallel passage is found in 5:11-5:15. Here Paul lists the sins that young, unmarried or widowed women are prone to fall into. He says they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

    What is the remedy? I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children....

    It saves them the same way hard work saves anyone from getting into mischief. They don't have time to be idle or concerned with frivolous matters. They are occupied with tasks fit for their sex and office.

    In 2:15, the principle is the same. The woman is saved from the temptation to adorn herself with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array. It also "saves" her from the temptation to usurp her husband's authority and from deception of godless men who creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, 2 Timothy 3:2-6. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    But it is not childbearing alone. It is childbearing if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. And it is not if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety alone, but that coupled with childbearing.

    And so in 5:14. Paul doesn't simply will that the younger women marry and bear children, but that they also guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. And Paul doesn't simply say that women should give none occassion to the adversary to speak reproachfully, but that coupled with marriage and childbearing.

    God has closed the womb of some women, but that is the opportunity to examine themselves to see if there is unconfessed sin, or if God wants them to adopt.

    That is not to say that there are no women (and there are few) who have the gift of celibacy and the call of God to devote themselves wholly to the work of missions like Amy Carmichael or Lottie Moon.

    But those who bear children and guide the house do just as much to build the Kingdom of God and "save" or preserve themselves from the wiles of the devil.

    [ November 29, 2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    Oh yes! Culture does not enter the picture here. This has to do with nature.
     
  11. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Very good points, Aaron and thank you. The one thing I think I would add is about sterility -- we see a lot of it today due to years of birth control first. Even when that sin is confessed, it generally does not change the consequence of what has been done.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    You all obviously don't live in Mormon land like I do.

    Women only get to heaven by being celestially married to a man and bearing children. There are "x" number of souls God has created. The more babies you have, the faster the soul "pool" is used up and the faster you can get to the rewards, heaven, etc.

    Many wives, many many many children. Kinda puts a different slant on "she shall be saved in child bearing". No kids, no heaven.

    [Should I bring up the point that they get all their false doctrine on this subject from the KJV, the only version they will use, since modern versions translate it "delivered through" not "saved by"? No, will start a discussion of that on the versions forum!!] :eek:
     
  13. donnA

    donnA New Member

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    Oh my Dr. Bob, this was actually the theme of a movie I saw a longtime ago, didn't mention mormons or anything, but was thinny disguised as christian. This soul pool was called the 'guff' I think. And I wondered just something like came from. Now I know.
     
  14. g'day mate

    g'day mate New Member

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    I think that this verse is about the salvation of women. [​IMG]
     
  15. jcrowe

    jcrowe New Member

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    Just to clearify your post....
    Do you think that a woman that has never had children can't go to heaven?
     
  16. John3v36

    John3v36 New Member

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    Any thoughts/ideas?</font>[/QUOTE]You need to start back in vs 11 and read thru in vs 12 a worman is not allowed to teach or have authorty over a man. How can a mom not have authorty over her man child. she is saved from this in childbearing. so in having children she has authorty over her oun child.

    1 Tim 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
    13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
    14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
    15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
     
  17. 7-Kids

    7-Kids New Member

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    Any thoughts/ideas?</font>[/QUOTE]You need to start back in vs 11 and read thru in vs 12 a worman is not allowed to teach or have authorty over a man. How can a mom not have authorty over her man child. she is saved from this in childbearing. so in having children she has authorty over her oun child.

    1 Tim 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
    13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
    14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
    15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
    </font>[/QUOTE]So! That what it meant. I knew I was not saved because I had six kids. :D :D :D [​IMG]

    [ December 02, 2002, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: SixKids ]
     
  18. g'day mate

    g'day mate New Member

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    jcrowe what inspired you to ask such a question? From this thread.Unable to comprehend,my mischevous side has been tempted to include fathers. [​IMG]
    John
     
  19. John3v36

    John3v36 New Member

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    Deacon

    Did my reply help.

    John
     
  20. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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