Saying what you believe is clearer than saying Calvinist

In England, the Calvinist Baptists were known as "Particular", because of their belief in a limited atonement, while the non-Calvinists were known as "General" for their belief that the atonement was available to all. When the Baptists began to multiply in America, the name "Regular" was applied to the Calvinists, while non-Calvinists (especially in the Virginia, North Carolina , South Carolina and Georgia regions) were called "Separate".

Both groups adhered basically to the Philadelphia Confession of Faith which was in essence the same Confession as the Calvinistic London Confession, but the Separates in America, rejected the "Particular" or limited atonement flavor of the document. For this of course, the Separates were labeled "Arminian". The controversy between the Regulars and Separates was in full bloom in the 1780's in Virginia. Armitage tells us how it was resolved:

"The Calvinistic controversy had been imported by the General and Particular Baptists, who had come from England. For a time they lived happily with each other, probably held together by the cohesive power of opposition from without. But, by and by, as they became stronger, they dropped the names of General and Particular and conducted their doctrinal contest under the name of Separate and Regular Baptist. Samuel Harriss, John Waller and Jeremiah Walker were leaders of the Arminian side, while E. Craig, William Murphy and John Williams were leaders on the Calvinistic side; but while they conducted their debates with great freedom and utterance, they also clung to each other with brotherly love. Having suffered so much together in a common cause, the thought of separation was too painful to be endured. They, therefore, treated each other with all the cordiality of Christian gentlemen, or as Mr. Spurgeon would say, they agreed to keep two bears in their house, 'bear and forbear;' and the result was, after a long and full discussion in 1787, they agreed to know each other, and to be known to others, as The United Baptist Churches of Christ in Virginia." History of the Baptists by Thomas Armitage, 1887, p.780-781

Historically speaking, they did not have to be either, or they could be one or another. Is it becoming clear to you? Please don't tell the world that Baptists are historically "Calvinist". You would not be in agreement with Crosby, Benedict. or Armitage.

http://www.learnthebible.org/are-baptists-historically-calvinists.html

 

Yes Tom. It's not an easy passage.

Thanks
HankD

 

Unhuh.

http://www.learnthebible.org/are-bap...alvinists.html

 

Hank, we are not talking about believers suffering for Christ's sake, we are talking about God being longsuffering toward sinners that they should repent and believe.

There is nothing in scripture to indicate God wants to put off the salvation of a sinner for a moment. Jesus constantly warned people to be ready, as he would come when they did not expect.

So, if God imposes faith on a man, why would he wait and be longsuffering when he can regenerate them now?

 

the Bible dictionary defines "propitiation" :

In 1 John 2:2; 4:10, Christ is called the "propitiation for our sins." Here a different Greek word is used (hilasmos). Christ is "the propitiation," because by his becoming our substitute and assuming our obligations he expiated our guilt, covered it, by the vicarious punishment which he endured. (Comp. Hebrews 2:17, where the expression "make reconciliation" of the A.V. is more correctly in the R.V. "make propitiation.")

also,

Noah Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language
1. (n.) The act of appeasing the wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person; the act of making propitious. 2. (n.) That which propitiates; atonement or atoning sacrifice; specifically, the influence or effects of the death of Christ in appeasing the divine justice, and conciliating the divine favor.

So, are you saying that every cannibal that ever lived, every coldblooded killer, rapist, incestuous individual, every God rejecting member of Adam's posterity have had their sins propitiated for, yet many are still ending up in hell and damnation ?

How can that be ?

 

I can't speak for B4L, but I believe that, Yes.

Jesus's work on the cross paid the sins of all men, but only those who believe can appropriate this gift.

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

In verse 1 we see the promise is to everyone, but a person can come short of it. How? Unbelief.

We see this in many verses.

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

You could be dying of thirst and I could give you a big glass of water. I have supplied the remedy that will keep you from dying. But you must drink (believe) the water for it to help you.

 

I totally agree.:thumbs:

 

From James B. Taylor's (the first Secretary of the Foreign Mission Board of the SBC) Virginia Baptist Ministers (1859), s.v. "David Jessee":

 

So you're saying that the blood of Glory's Lamb, the blood Christ shed, Christ died on that cross, suffered all that pain and humiliation, conquered death, and FINALLY, the effectivity, the efficacy of the blood He shed and the pain He underwent, DEPENDS on the sinner's ability to believe in Him ?

What you guys cannot get, and will never get from what I can see here, is that Jesus Christ's redemption of His people is not hinged on anything else on the part of the sinners He has redeemed, but stands alone and apart from any work or contribution from the redeemed. He redeemed BECAUSE it was His will to do so. He died because HE gave up the ghost, and not from any blow that any weapon can inflict on Him.

You keep quoting Scriptures that were written by believers TO believers and say that applies to every soul on this planet.

 

I asked this before and no one answered.

Just so I know who I'm talking to, how many of you on here ARE Calvinists?

 

No. It was done independent of man, but it was done so that man would have a way to God. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. But it was done to draw all men to Christ.
John 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Was this written to believers?
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

If so, do you believe a Christian can lose his salvation?

 

You said you were a "Particular Baptist". You further stated you don't like to use the term "Calvinist". Why not? If you think Calvinism is correct, why not use it? The term "Christian" isn't well accepted either in more and more places. You going to start calling yourself something else so you don't upset other people?


You appear to be "braver" than the rest, since no one else has bothered to respond.

 

I've seen that done quite a lot in my 59 years. I've seen people weeping under conviction. I've seen tears flowing, yet no acceptance of Christ. I've seen people cling to a pew back they were resisting so strongly.

 

Peter was being sarcastic? Man, these answers you Calvinists give to explain away scripture that refutes your doctrine get more ridiculous by the moment. Do you ever stop and really listen to yourself?

Peter did not say these heretics claimed Jesus bought them, Peter himself said the Lord bought them. In fact, Peter said these men denied the Lord.

 

Saying "Calvinist" is just as clear.