SDA unique doctrine

1. Gift of prophecy -- ok? -- You accept 1Cor 12? 1Cor 14? as being valid???

2. Can you give me an example of someone that you believe has/had the Gift of prophecy??

3. Given that Ellen White was Adventist - and that scripture says that all messages given by a prophet with the claim that the message is of God must be in conformity to the Word of God "If they speak not according to this Word it is because they have no light" Isaiah 8 -- then how in the world can we discuss the degree to which Ellen White conforms to the doctrines of scripture without first discussing the Doctrines of the Adventist Church vs scripture -- since "She was Adventist"???

If it turns out that you are "Baptist" when you do this exercise - it is "Likely" that you find Baptist doctrines not Adventist ones to be the ones you accept from the Bible.

If if turns out that you are "Presbyterian" when you do this exercise - it is "likely" that you will find that it is Presbyterian doctrines not Adventist one that you accept from the Bible.

If it turns out that you are Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist ... You get the idea.

When Ellen White speaks to the subject of (and in favor of) believer's Baptism, the state of the dead, the literal millennium, the pre-mill second coming, the Trinity, the 2Cor 5 judgment of all, the literal bodily resurrection of christ, the literal bodily resurrection of the saints, the need to test all doctrines "Sola Scriptura", the fact of free will, the process of Atonement as defined in scripture .... etc these messages that she claims to have come from God are going to "cut across somebody's doctrinal view".

I don't see how anyone who is not already Adventist in doctrine would even begin to confirm her as a prophet. I don't see how a Baptist would ever confirm a Lutheran prophet if that prophet endorsed the very doctrinal distinctives of the Lurtheran faith that are in opposition to that which most Baptists believe.

Just stating the obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Take a simple case of Believer's Baptism - Ellen White claimed that this is the correct model - first one comes to faith in God and is born-again and then one is baptized as the symbol of that new life in Christ.

Those today that teach infant baptism (Lutheran, Presbyterian, Anglican, etc) would not agree, for them she is a false prophet on this test "alone".

Those who teach "Baptismal regeneration" would not agree - for them she is a false-prophet on this test "alone".

As we all can easily see.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I 2nd this post..n/t

 

Answer: No.

I grew up on the Adventist church but yes I have tested the doctrinal statements she has made to see if they line up with scripture.

Historically Ellen White (actually Ellen Harmon) was just a teenager when she had her first vision and there was not Sevent-day Adventist church.

There is no doctrine believed and voted by Adventists that requires or relies on statements from Ellen White to either be "discovered" or "known" or "proven".

All SDA doctrine either stands or falls "sola scriptura".

In Christ,

Bob

 

My earlier post was specific to Ellen White -- which I interpreted to be your specific question. My point was that Ellen White's messages cover all distinctive doctrinal statements of the Adventist church (though they are not the origin for them) so a sola-scriptura doctrinal exercise must first be done for SDA doctrines themselves and only then can we begin to discuss Ellen White with any possible outcome other than a negative one.

My last post is in regard to SDA doctrines in general and the fact that they must be tested "sola scriptura" -- not sola-Ellen White nor even "scripture plus Ellen White". Ellen White's role in the SDA church was not -- and still is not one of "creating or establishing or testing doctrine".

That is the Adventist position - and it was also Ellen White's position on the "Sola Scriptura" process for all doctrine - even SDA doctrine.


In Christ,

Bob

 

Your access to the facts is somewhat limited - the SDA church is comprised of about 14 million members with about 1 million being in the U.S. In Europe and Australia it is very common that members hold fully to the SDA set of doctrines but do not agree that Ellen White had the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy. Admittedly this is nothing like the majority of SDAs but it is "fact" and one reason it is so well accepted is that Ellen White herself stated that while members needed to accept the teaching of 1Cor 12 the fact of her having the gift listed there should "never be made a test of fellowship".

And sure enough -- it is not.

As already stated - Ellen White has never been a source for doctrine in the Adventist church and no doctrine is based on "proof" from Ellen White. This includes our teaching on Spiritual Gifts.

I am simply stating the facts.

In Christ,

Bob

 

exAdventist Outreach
Ministry of former Adventists with Biblical Answers on Adventism

 

References as to why the SDA church has never had the acceptance of Ellen White's 1Cor 12 spiritual gift as a "test of fellowship".

Statement of voted Doctrinal beliefs of SDAs

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

In Christ,

Bob

 

Targus: You can best find out your answers from an ex-Adventist instead of carrying on this personal vendetta with Bob Ryan. He is what he is and he has a right to be that. You are not going to change his beliefs.

Did you even LOOK at the link I provided in my first post?

These threads of yours are bordering on 'flaming' which is against the BB rules that you agreed to when you joined. So, if you want to continue this 'baiting' of Bob, I suggest you take it private. Consider this a gentle warning...

Thank you,
§ue
Administrator

 

Wow. Interesting stuff Sue. Thanks for sharing.

 

I am jumping in here -- havn't read any posts so far; just the heading makes my blood boil. I have been patient sixty years long with Seventh Day Adventism and 'Spirit of Prophecy'-blasphemy.

I have started on something that will once for all show and prove the hoax both are. Just give me a little more time; I have all my life refused to undertake this sort of thing, but they forced me to change my mind. The Word shall destroy them!

 

References as to why the SDA church has never had the acceptance of Ellen White's 1Cor 12 spiritual gift as a "test of fellowship".

1. There is no "must be accepted" statement in ANY of our docrines much less the spiritual gifts -- What you are looking for in SDA parlance is "test of fellowship". Keep looking.

?? "bad news is bad news"
"good news is bad news"???:laugh:

"NEWS is bad news":applause: :laugh: :applause:

 

It is true that "not every word on that site" is from the actual SDA 28 fundamental beliefs. This is easily observed at the site because it tells you "these are the fundamental beliefs" -- but then mabye you were relying on the fact that many readers will not click on the site and "see that fact",

Who knows.

But your point is actually workinig against your system of complaints because what we see here is that not only are the "opinions" of various administrators "not binding on SDAs" but there is also flexibility WITHIN the actual VOTED statements so that not all of them are a test of fellowship.

Your "SDAs must accept" and "Must believe" speculations are not holding up in the specific areas you choose to highlight.

Just stating the obvious here.

in Christ,

Bob