SDA unique doctrine

no, yes, maybe - opinions vary.

When do we get to the part where you are interested in actual Bible doctrine?

 

To that point - 100% accurate!:thumbs:

Next - those beliefs are voted on and affirmed by representatives from the world wide denomination once every 5 years. As process that has seen the list go from 22 to 28 for example.

SDA "individuals" are free-will human beings that are not "expelled" when they happen to have "an opinion that varys" on a few of the doctrines.

There are in fact a small number of issues that are considered "tests of fellowship" --

But one thing that is well established is that the beliefs represent the majority view - rather than "every single individual down to the last soul" as you seem to try to get to.

The Baptismal statements closely reflect that published list but are not as detailed because they assume the person has already been through a series of Bible studies explaining the doctrines.

The list is bigger - I simply gave an example.

Yes. The published statements are there for all "both SDA and nonSDA" to reference.

The fact that there is "no pope" nor " a lot of expelling of the saints based on varied opinions" is no different in the SDA church than in the Baptist church.

Do you find "Baptist's confusing" if they LIST their stated beliefs and then "every last soul in church does not happen to be in 100% agreement with every word"????

Seems like you are grasping at straws.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I was hoping you would finally get back to doing that - glad to see you are reforming.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Sorry Bob, my error. Thank you for lovingly pointing it out for me. "Traditions of the elders" is beliefs that were held that was said to be handed down from Moses orally, never written.

With that said, my position on food and drink remains the same as supported by scripture.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

Steaver -

I couldn't find anything from Jamieson, Fausset, Brown, Matthew Henry, John Gill etc that indicated that any of them thought that the source for the "traditions of the elders" was Moses.

Please let me know the source you are using to come up with that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

#1. Your focus is on process and policy not scripture. I find that surprising if you actually had value for "sola scriptura" evidence.

#2. Your public profile lists you as "Baptist" which means you "supposedly" accept "the priesthood of believers" and would reject anything like an enforced statement of beliefs on all members "down to the last soul".

By comparison to Baptists the SDA organization is "much more structured" but not to the point of having a Catholic papacy - no pope - no dictatorship where administration says "you must all believe whatever we say".

So MORE structured than baptists but LESS than the dictatorship you seem to be looking for. Yet you claim this INCREASED level of structure leaves you confused -- you who supposedly prefer LESS structure as a Baptist!!

#3. Again you go for the "policy and practice" as to whether someone "was baptized not believing in the trinity". I don't know if that "process actually happened or not" I have never seen it done. But I HAVE met a very few SDA "individuals" that said that they currently reject the Trinity - much to my surprise.

As for "process" I seriously doubt that they were of that opinion when Baptized -- but I am not "all knowing" regarding "all baptisms on the planet".

#3. Your approach here is very curious given your claims to be baptist.

When I go to a Baptist church not ALL are Calvinist not ALL are Arminian. Not ALL accept perseverance not ALL demand OSAS not ALL hold to Sola-Scriptura, not all oppose the Ten Commandments, not all Accept them - some value ECF work kinda like a few here did before leaving the Baptist church.

But this is you being "confused" that all SDAs are not rigidly "certified" to comply with every detail of every point on all 28 doctrines???? The fact is that SDAs tend to have by far "more compliance" and "general agreement" than Baptists. 99.9% Arminian, 99.9% Trinitarian 99% in favor of Ten Commandments.

I find your line of logic - illusive. I find your focus on "policy" rather than doctrine and sola-scriptura -- puzzling.

in Christ,

Bob

 

So far we have yeet to identify even one doctrine in such a category.

1. What have we listed so far that "must be accepted" to be baptized that is "not in the doctrinal statement of beliefs"???

2. When do you get to an interest in something other than policy? (Policy as in "what do you do when someone is believing something just a bit off the published list, give more classes, baptize as along as they accept the basics of the Gospel, provide a papal statement?" ). Your interest in "policy as to what do you do if a person does this or that" far exceeds your interest in scripture so far.

HINT: The "list of doctrines" are already published -- too late to revise them.

Pretending that " a case where an SDA exists that did not hold rigidly to every detail of every statement published" is supposedly too "confusing for a Baptist who rejects the idea of creed and mandated beliefs entirely" -- is a self-conflicted argument on your part -- hard to take you seriously. Kinda like a puppy insisting that all animals eat straw like the ox. Something fishy there.

Pretending that the almost uniform position among SDAs on the Ten Commandments, the ENTIRE 66 books of the Bible as authorotative, Creation not Evolutionism, Arminian not Calvinism, the continued validity of spiritual gifts in 1Cor 12 without deleting prophecy from the list, literal millennium, post-trib rapture -- is "too much VARIATION for a Baptist that gets LOADS of variation on ALL those doctrinal issues in the Baptist church every day" is less than "genuine" from my POV.

in Christ,

Bob

 

The bottom line is that the SDA practice "appears to be NEAR UNIFORMITY" when compared to the more informatl and varried state of doctrines held from-member-to-member in the Baptist church based partly on the teaching of "priesthood of all believers".

Why in the world then should a Baptist be complaining that the SDA model is "not uniform ENOUGH"????

Frankly - You seem almost "dissappointed" that "nearly all SDAs accept spiritual gifts of 1Cor 12 but not all accept that Ellen White is an example of someone with the spiritual gift of prophecy". (Hint; SDA doctrines are defined and proven "sola scriptura" -- Ellen White is not a "doctrinal prophet" as compared to Bible writers whose teaching in scripture IS the basis for doctrine).

Makes no sense at all

in Christ,

Bob

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan
1. What have we listed so far that "must be accepted" to be baptized that is "not in the doctrinal statement of beliefs"???

This is a policy question regarding the violation of one of the doctrinal statements. Policy statements are not part of the baptismal commitment. The doctrine on life style is already in the list of doctrines at the link that you supposedly read.

So "nothing new added there".

We still have yet to find a "new doctrine" to add --

Why are you so interested in coming up with one?

Or are you hoping that "policy" becomes a doctrine?

When the practice of the indiiviidual does not match to the statement on doctrines it is normally left to the individual to make individual decisions -- kinda like being a Baptist.

But on some things there are policy and practice limits for doctrines on the list.

This amounts to a subset of the existing doctrines having anthing like a policy or minimum practice statement.

So "for example" we urge people to accept all of the Ten Commandments - yes even the 4th commandment. But there is no "policy" to go along with that saying what they must or must not do on Sabbath.

It seems your interest is more in the policy and limits than on the actual doctrine itself.

Keep looking - if that is your area of interest.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I see - so you see the list above and you see that there is a huge degree of uniformity and agrement among SDAs on those subjects -- but because there is still "SOME room for differences" among members you are "confused"??

I would argue that you must be "highly confused" then when you attend your Baptist church that has even LESS uniform agreement on those very same doctrines.

How do you manage to get through the day???

in Christ,

Bob

 

In our never-ending quest to address your unending interest in policies within the Adventist churc....

I see. So then you have some kind of actual quote some statement from the Church - the 28 beliefs or from Ellen White saying that the "policy" that is in practice today allowing for personnal choice in terms of the degree to which one agrees to one or the other doctrines -- vs some supposed quote that you claim to have from Ellen White indicates that the church policy allows for too much individual choice? Too much individual freedom?

That is news to me that you had such a document or statement.

Please provide it.

I am always interest in areas where you musings cross the line into the area of facts. I have given you the facts that Adventists use - now please share yours with me.

in Christ,

Bob

 

1. The 28 beliefs published shows that the doctrinal position of SDAs is that the Triune Godhead is the right view of God. Beyond question.

2. Your question is simply on "policy" as to what happens when a member of the church is found to reject that SDA teaching. You seem want to know why administrators or Church councils are not set up to expell them from membership. you know... questions of "policy".

I have no "policy document" to hand you on that point of church discipline -- you may need to continue to just "make stuff up" there as you go.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Again - to answer your questions on "policy".

Statement of voted Doctrinal beliefs of SDAs

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

That list of published doctrinal statements is given to the baptismal candiidate as a matter of practice and policy.

Bible studies - in fact pre-baptismal bible studies are conducted with the candidate to make sure they understand the beliefs of the church before deciding to join. This covers all the doctrines in the published list -- as a matter of policy.

We do not send out "the Sabbath police" or anything like that to judge whether the candidate's acceptance of the 4th commandment is up to "some standard" --it left to individual conscience and choice as a matter of policy and practice.

We do not argue that the acceptance of our spiritual gifts doctrine also mandates that the candidate agrees that Ellen White is an example of someone with the gift of prophecy -- It is our policy not to object if someone accepts spirtual gifts in 1Cor 12 but does not consider Ellen White to have had them.

You seem to have a huge struggle over the fact that SDAs do not try to enforce rigid compliance to some specific level EVEN THOUGH the SDA church turns out to have a much more uniform result on key doctrinal statements than your own group. Kinda like the puppy that insists that all animals should eat straw like the ox --- something fishy about the things you claim here.

I could understand if this were coming from a member of the RCC insisting that SDAs adopt a rigid centralized enforcement of policy practice and doctrine from central command like the RCC had in the dark ages. But in theory you are a Baptist and are someone actually IN FAVOR of "Priesthood of all believers".

Kinda puzzling that you seek a "conformity" that does not exist even in the Baptist church.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I use "The King James Bible Commentary" which has many contributers.

Here is the quote from my comentary....

"The traditions of the elders. The Jews of our Lord's time believed that in addition to the written law of Moses, there was an oral law given to Moses on Sinai and passed down from him by word of mouth till it reached the Great Synagogue or Council of Elders which succeeded Ezra after the return from exile. This coucil lasted till 291 B.C. and seems to have been the source of the many accertions to the law of God which have been found in Judaism ancient and modern."

Edward E. Hindson, Th.D., D.Min., Vice President, There's Hope Ministries; Minister of Biblical Studies, Rehoboth Baptist Church. B.A., William Tyndale College; M.A., Trinity Evangelical School of Theology; D.Min., Westminister Theological Seminary; D.Litt., (Hon.) California Graduate School of Theology. Additional graduatestudy at Acadia University (Canada) and the University of South Africa.

God Bless! :jesus:

 

The Jews of Christ's time "believed" that the "Traditions of the Elders" had the authority of Moses EVEN though Moses did not write them?

I guess they were as superstitious as Christ said they were.

Hmm - that means Christ was right about their rejecting scripture -- the OT scripture and replacing it with "traditions of men".

It means Matthew Henry and John Gill were right in finding that these guys in Mark 7 and Matt 15 were substituting their own idea of law (AS IF it was equal to scripture) and using it to negate/void/violate scripture (the OT). Christ in this story is UPHOLDING the unchanging unbroken Word of God -- the "traditions of the elders" is in the role of violating it - as Christ said.

in Christ,

Bob