See who is a Creation Scientist

[BobRyan]

We have discussed at length the errors and flaws in evolutionism's appeal to junk science. But the question comes up - if all that is so glaringly obvious why are there no scientists that accept the Bible account of creation as fact that is in harmony with science?

The impression some would try to give here - is that all scientists swallow the junk-science "stories" of evolutionism.

However that simply is not true.

I have already posted some of the insights of scientists I know that are 100% behind the Bible's account of creation while working as experts in their fields of science.

For example -

Alfredo Suzuki - PHD physics.

Trevor Lewis - PHD Chemistry

As Science Digest reported:

"Scientists who utterly reject Evolution may be one of our fastest-growing controversial minorities... Many of the scientists supporting this position hold impressive credentials in science."
Larry Hatfield, "Educators Against Darwin," Science Digest Special (Winter 1979), pp. 94-96.

Here is an interesting link showing the movement "back to the light of day" among scientists.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-scientists.html

Heard from any Christian Scientists who promote the harmony between Creationism and Science today?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Michael52]

Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ." 1 Cor. 1:12 (NASBU)

The "Great Battle of the Scientists". My scientist can whup your scientist!

 

[BobRyan]

Maybe that is all some see here.

But more to the point - not only are the points about "Bible vs Science" false, so also is the claim that "no scientist believes God's account of creation" as can be seen from the list above.

What is "left" then for the Christian evolutionists? It appears that every stronghold has fallen for them.

Even atheist evolutionists are not backing them -

IN Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

To see the varied ways that evolutionists try to protect their religion against open scientific investigation - see


http://www.alternativescience.com/darwinism.htm

No wonder scientists are reluctant to confess that they find problems in the myths of evolutionism.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Michael52]

Sorry, Bob, I couldn't resist.

Seriously, though, I have difficulty seeing the validity of pitting the faith of scientists against one another to try to prove or disprove the objective merits of science.

I'm certainly not an expert, but I have some problems with the theory of evolution. But, it is not based on my faith, but rather on the merits of the science. The "personalities" of the scientists has no bearing on the validity of their arguments, in my esitmation. By the way, I to am a creationist. I believe God created everything, like the Bible says. I think science is helpful in providing the "mundane" details that God chose not provide us with in His Holy written word.

I noted in the link you provided, they were promoting a book entitled "In Six Days". It is advertized to promote the scientific finding (theories?) of working scientists who believe in the literal six days of creation. Being of the "objective type", the book caught my eye one day in the bookstore. I bought it, hoping to find some well reasoned, insightful scientific arguments for that position. What I actually found, were some of the most "sophmoric" and incoherent arguments I have ever read on any subject. Many of the essays were written, in what seemed to me to be at the High School level, in literary style, logic and simple reasoning ability. If these "scientists" truly gained their advanced degrees while displaying that level of academic rigor while obtaining those degrees, I am fearful for the state of our institutions of higher education. I'm serious! I smell a rodent! Though, to be fair, many of the essays were more like personal testimonies and didn't necessarily dwell on rigorous proofs of the "six days" or did not even mention it! These were much better written.

I'm fairly confident that others with some education in the sciences would come to a similar conclusions as mine. Trying to prove or disprove God by science or any other human discipline is a "fools errand".

for we walk by faith, not by sight— 2 Cor. 5:7 (NASBU)

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Michael52:
[QB]
Seriously, though, I have difficulty seeing the validity of pitting the faith of scientists against one another to try to prove or disprove the objective merits of science.

On one level you are certainly correct - the faith of atheist evolutionists in their non-God explanation for origins vs the faith of Christians who study science and find the hand of God is simply an exercise in human nature to some extent.

However - I think the point goes deeper than that. For in truth "it did not happen both ways - only one is correct". And the two ways could not be in greater opposition. That means that one of the ways will continually find confirmation "in the data" that is "really there" and the other way "must continually get around road blocks" since the events actually happened "only one way".

If we were talking about socialism vs capitalism there is a good chance that each has its own strengths and weaknesses. But the historic event that resulted in "origins" of all life on earth - only happened one way.

I'm certainly not an expert, but I have some problems with the theory of evolution. But, it is not based on my faith, but rather on the merits of the science.

Possibly so. Certainly evolutionism appeals to "enough junk science" that the objective observers should be able to "smell a rat" as it were. (To see some really prime censoring of the data by evolutionists go to http://www.alternativescience.com/darwinism.htm)

The "personalities" of the scientists has no bearing on the validity of their arguments, in my esitmation.

True enough. However a key component of the bogus argument constructed by evolutionists is "Christian creationists are either too stupid to know what science is saying or they are dishonest". - You can find this in various flavors if you follow the threads posted in this area of the Baptist board.

So it serves the point to show Christians that these people can not dismiss as "too stupid to know what science is".

By the way, I to am a creationist. I believe God created everything, like the Bible says. I think science is helpful in providing the "mundane" details that God chose not provide us with in His Holy written word.

I agree.

Your point that not every book advertised on a web site will prove to be useful - is accepted.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Paul of Eugene]

How many scientists opposing evolution are named - Steve? The National Center for Science Education has formed "project Steve" in which, out of all the scientists who support evolution, they list those who agree to be listed and are named steve or one its cognates, like Stephen.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/steve/

In 2002 they had 383 names on the list.

The idea is, showing how many scientists named Steve alone compare to the list creationists come up with, and considering how many other scientists there are NOT named Steve, it will show just what an overwhelming minority those who don't accept evolution truly are - among scientists, that is.

Numbers don't determine the truth. But evidence based truth draws scientists like honey draws bees!

 

[Paul of Eugene]

Misguided defenders of the faith have been predicting that true science will catch up with the evils of "evilutionism" for as long as the theory has been out there, and they have been wrong all that time, just as they are wrong today. Here is a survey of some of those who have made this kind of prediction in the past:

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/moreandmore.htm

 

[A_Christian]

Paul of Eugene:

The Bible still stands unharmed by the theory of evolution. Those who wish to place their faith in evolution will find that they've gained NOTHING of any eternal value but may reap eternal consequences for turning people away from GOD.

Creation science has become a growing force for the faithful and offers something evolution never will. Creationism offers an non-confrontational perspective to GOD's Holy Word. It promotes the salvation message and doesn't negate nor overshadow Biblical truth with personal gain or notoriety as does evolutionary theories. In fact evolution is a completely MAN centered study, and that bias has become only more apparent with the passage of time...

 

[Brett]

A-Christian:

1) Nobody heere is saying that the Bible is harmed by evolution.

2) I have "faith" in evolution just like I have "faith" in gravity.

3) As Paul of Eugene has said many times before, Creationism is responsible for turning people away from God by its sheer absurdity and clear conflict with physical evidence. Showing that evolution is compatible with God is what brings people to God, not preaching the clear falsehood of literal 6-day Creationism.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Originally posted by Paul of Eugene:
But evidence based truth draws scientists like honey draws bees!

When dealing with ungodly scientist, and others who believe in evolution, you have the analogy wrong.

Evolutionary pseudoscience draws scientists like manure draws flies.

 

[A_Christian]

Originally posted by Brett:
A-Christian:

1) Nobody heere is saying that the Bible is harmed by evolution.

2) I have "faith" in evolution just like I have "faith" in gravity.

3) As Paul of Eugene has said many times before, Creationism is responsible for turning people away from God by its sheer absurdity and clear conflict with physical evidence. Showing that evolution is compatible with God is what brings people to God, not preaching the clear falsehood of literal 6-day Creationism.

Sir:

The entire Bible is full of what many secular learned and very scientific men would call absurdities. 6 days of creation, Adam & Eve, the Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, the Exodus, Jericho, Samson, Jonah, and Jesus Christ's healings and resurrection. Just like gravity, my faith is based on what I don't see and not what some man imagines the found evidence represents.

Yes sir, lots of people are drifting away from Christianity. That is as it must be. God is sifting the wheat from the weeds. I do find it interesting though that among "Christian" churches, that the ones that are accepting EVOLUTION are the ones that are losing their membership. I look at the Catholic church (both English & Roman). They have lost many regular attenders. I notice that the Methodist and Lutheran "modernists" are not very far behind. I see that the Unitarians are so-so but social clubs have always been around (I'd hardly call them "Christian"). The Presbytarians are hanging on, but they seem to be losing their grip.

However, the Independent Fundamentalist churches, the Independent Baptist churches, the Assembly of God chuches all seem to be growing rather fast. Oddly, they all seem to stick to a strict interpretation of the Holy Scripture.

So is AIN'T CREATIONISTS who are driving people away from attending Church. It seems to be the "modernists" and EVOLUTIONISTS who are tearing apart their own house. But God is in these last days sorting out the corrupt from His own. Jesus isn't the decendent of an ape or any other animal.
Jesus is GOD in human form as HE was foreordained.

You are very welcome to attend the church I attend when your's finally closes; however, you will be asked to stick to God's Holy Scripture or you will be shown the door. That choice will be yours...

 

[Brett]

The entire Bible is full of what many secular learned and very scientific men would call absurdities. 6 days of creation, Adam & Eve, the Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, the Exodus, Jericho, Samson, Jonah, and Jesus Christ's healings and resurrection. Just like gravity, my faith is based on what I don't see and not what some man imagines the found evidence represents.

The difference here is, there is a plethora of convincing evidence that the 6-day creation did not occur as literally told in the bible. IN contrast, we as Christians can easily view Jericho, Sampson, Jonah, Jesus's healings, etc. just as they are: miracles. There is no evidence to suggest that they did not occur, and it is part of our faith as Christians that God works miracles. These by definition violate some known law of nature. By contrast, the biochemical, archaological, genetic, and biogeographical evidence for evolution proves it with little doubt - this is certainly distinct from the other miracles you cite.

You are very welcome to attend the church I attend when your's finally closes;

My church is doing just fine, thank you. In fact, last week, a family of three was saved after joining our church, and a few weeks before that, another family of three was saved in the same vein.

 

[Paul of Eugene]

Here is a link to one christian's efforts to show that God is not oppossed to evolution.

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/genesis.htm

There really are alternative interpretations of the scriptures. It is not really necessary to throw away your knowledge or give up all hope of learning anything in biology, astronomy, geology and so forth just to be a christian.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Brett:
[QB] A-Christian:

1) Nobody heere is saying that the Bible is harmed by evolution.

2) I have "faith" in evolution just like I have "faith" in gravity.

#1. I have no faith at all in gravity - I experience gravity every day -- faith is "the substance of things HOPED for". I do not HOPE that Gravity exists - I experience it in realtime.

#2. No human "experiences" evolution - they merely "experience HOPE in evolution". And of course the Atheist evolutionist desperately clings to that hope for it is the ONLY model that gets him/her to a godless account for origins. EVEN when they themselves point out problems in the science (the junk science) of evolutionism they "cling to it anyway" - after all what other religion do they have?

#3. The myth that you can marry the atheist's view called evolutionism to the Creator's account of creation "IN SIX DAYS the LORD MADE the heavens and the earth and the sea and ALL that is IN them and rested the 7th day" - has been debunked repeatedly on the thread regarding evolutionism and the Gospel.

3) As Paul of Eugene has said many times before, Creationism is responsible for turning people away from God

Another myth spawned in desperate attempts to bolster the doctrines of evolutionism and offer them up to Christians. However - NO Christian has ever been turned away from God by BELIEVING God's Word!

The oxymoron that you must swallow to "believe" that accepting God's Word results in rejection of God - is staggering, by its "sheer absurdity" as you say.

The ONLY argument made against God - is when junk science is positioned as "truth" anbd the bible as "myth" or worse "as a lie told to Bible cultures that God considered to be too stupid to have the truth about the carnage and slaughter mechanisms of evolutionism".

Showing that evolution is compatible with God is what brings people to God

Is the great and yet illusive contradiction that Christian evolutionists pursue without end.

But it has been shown that marrying the truth of God's Word to the junk science "stories" of evolutionism corrupts both science AND the Gospel.

preaching clear falsehood of literal 6-day Creationism.

#1. Evolutionists NEVER describe evolution as "IN SIX DAYS the LORD MADE the Heavens and the EARTH the SEA and ALL that is in them and RESTED the Seventh day". (Though evolutionists here need to obfuscate that clear point.)

#2. Evolutionists like Dawkings READILY admit that evolutionism IS offering the one and only legitimate NON-GOD model of origins and is the one and only hope for all atheists.

Obviously - he is correct.

#3. Your quote (which is in the form of an exact negation of the Bible text) COULD NOT BE more opposed to the word of God.

Here we have a clear example that should be very instructive for the reader who may have doubted that such was the case - until you made that post.

IN Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The entire Bible is full of what many secular learned and very scientific men would call absurdities. 6 days of creation, Adam & Eve, the Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, the Exodus, Jericho, Samson, Jonah, and Jesus Christ's healings and resurrection. Just like gravity, my faith is based on what I don't see and not what some man imagines the found evidence represents.

Originally posted by Brett:

The difference here is, there is a plethora of convincing evidence that the 6-day creation did not occur as told in the bible.

Sadly - the fact is that not only are Christian evolutionists discarding the Word of God - but they do so with NO CONVINCING EVIDENCE that God is wrong in HIS OWN ACCOUNT of origins as HE summarized it "FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE the heavens and the earth and ALL THAT IS IN THEM".

IN contrast, we as Christians can easily view Jericho, Sampson, Jonah, Jesus's healings, etc. just as they are: miracles.

False.

Science does NOT show us Jesus' miracles - his acts of raising the dead do NOT fit any science we have today. His acts of instant healing do NOT fit any science we know of today. The incarnation of Christ does NOT fit any science we know of today. The bodily ascension of Christ, Angels, Heaven, The High Priestly work of Christ in heaven described in Heb 8-10, the virigin birth, God writing the ten commandments on stone with His finger...

NONE of this is demonstratable in the lab.

God ALONE tells us of ONE man and ONE woman and NO life on earth one week before. God ALONE gives us the correct origins account.

But we readily admit that atheist evolutionists utterly reject that and cling to their ONE AND ONLY mode that so perfectly fits atheism --- evolutionism!

There is no evidence to suggest that they did not occur

The Same can be said of God's Words at SINAI "FOR IN SIX DAYS the LORD MADE The heavens and the earth the sea AND ALL that is in them".

But science IS NOT concerned with showing what DID NOT HAPPEN. Not with creation and not with God speaking at Sinai.

In science you adopt a model from which to make guesses. Then you take in observations and match them against the predictions of the guesses made.

No science is done "in the vaccuum" you presume.


By contrast, the biochemical, physical, genetic, and biogeographical evidence for creationism is compelling while it continually refutes the bogus myths and "Stories" of evolutionism.

The horse series, once hailed as the great "proof" of evolutionism (by Simpson in his 1950's book "horses") turned out to be the "piltdown version of the horse".

The embarrassing glaws and gaffs in evolutionism are "Swallowed" by evolutionists for two reasons.

#1. The atheist evolutionist has NTHER OPTION.

#2. The Christian evolutionist does not appear to know any better after having given up on scripture.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Paul of Eugene:
It is not really necessary to throw away your knowledge or give up all hope of learning anything in biology, astronomy, geology and so forth just to be a christian.

That is exactly why I started this thread. Thank you PAul for pointing that out. The vast list of outstanding scientists listed here - shows that a real belief in what God really said in His own origins account is in full harmony with REAL science -- even today.

God REALLY said "For in SIX DAYS the LORD CREATED the heavens and the earth the sea and ALL that is in them and rested the 7th day".

God REALLY said "and morning and evening were the 5th day" after creating land animals and our 2 (count them 2) parents as adult humans from that very day.

And science REALLY shows that the "massive decrease" entropy "needed" by the myths of evolutionism - is not observed.

Science REALLY shows that the mono-chiral orientation for amino acids NEEDED by all living cells is not possible in abiogenesis experiments.

Science REALLY predicts that the reducing atmosphere needed by abiogenesis would result in leathal cosmic rays saturating the surface of the earth.

Science REALLY predicts that polymerization of amino acids can not occur ocean depths.

Science REALLY shows that the 1950 horse series Simpson published "never existed".

Science REALLY shows that the claimed transition BETWEEN reptiles and birds (archaeopteryx)- is nothing less than TRUE BIRD.

Hence it is not surprising to find that great list of Bible-believing Creation-accepting scientists exposing the flaws of evolutionism today.

Hence it is not surprising to find evolutionists turning on their own authors in desperate attempts to censor exposure to the light of day.

To those evolutionists here who have convinced themselves that they must compromise the scriptures and swallow "junk science" rather than hold to "good science" and integrity in Bible reading I would boldly remind them - "there is another option".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[A_Christian]

Originally posted by Brett:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />You are very welcome to attend the church I attend when your's finally closes;

My church is doing just fine, thank you. In fact, last week, a family of three was saved after joining our church, and a few weeks before that, another family of three was saved in the same vein. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Oddly, a person profess that they have salvation PRIOR to becoming a member at my church. That doesn't mean that someone may just not be; however, prospective members are interviewed by the pastor and the deacon board. Sounds like your church is isn't doing this.

 

[A_Christian]

BobRyan:

I fully agree. Evolutionists ALWAYS say that there wasn't a WORLDWIDE Flood. Even some Atheists will suggest that there likely was a substantial local flood that is remembered by a frightening Bible tale. This I beblieve is the one physical factor that TOTALLY currupts everything that the evolutionist studies. The Uniformitarian sees epic layers of millions of years. The Flood tears apart a "seemingly" billion year old creation and makes everything appear in select locations as though the fossil impressions are as old as time itself. The truth just isn't acceptable to anyone who doesn't know GOD. Unfortunately, that is exactly who is holding the scientific community at large in their lap and simple headed "Christian" are taken in by a authoritative confusion...

 

[john6:63]

Originally posted by Brett:
2) I have "faith" in evolution just like I have "faith" in gravity.

Now that’s a funny statement. We can “observe” gravity everyday, I’m experiencing it right now, oops, I just dropped my pen and it fell to the floor.

Evolution in terms of macroevolution isn’t “observable”. A dog is still a dog, whether it be in the good ‘ol US of A or China.