1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Seeking God some of the Time

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Oct 9, 2023.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 3:11 makes this statement and some read this as saying "there is none who seeks for God at any time." However the intended contextual message might be "there is none who seeks for God all the time, or when they are going against God by sinning."

    Contextually, since Paul is saying "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), so when going against God by sinning is most likely the actual message.

    Consider this verse:
    2 Chronicles 15:4 (NASB)
    “But in their distress they turned to the LORD God of Israel, and they sought Him, and He let them find Him.

    If no one ever seeks after God, then scripture would not mean what it says!

    Psalms 34:4
    I sought the LORD and He answered me,
    And rescued me from all my fears.

    Acts of the Apostles 13:7
    who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God.

    Read Psalms 14:1-6. Who are the ones who seek God as a refuge and make God their refuge? Who are ones in great dread, who are the righteous generation?

    Who are "My people" in Psalms 14:4? Believing Jews! According to false doctrine, God knowing no one ever seeks God, looked down to see if any were seeking God. Nevermind that is an irrational absurdity. And of course in addition to seeing some that proclaim "there is no God" and therefore not seeking God He also did see those who had made God their refuge, the righteous generation, the believing Jews.

    The claim no lost person ever seeks God is obviously false doctrine.

    The doctrine originated by expanding the scope of the statement, no one seeks God, to include at all times. Thus, the scripture study technique of asking the question, what is the least God is saying, once again leads us away from falsehood and toward truth.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The thread's OP assertion is that no one seeks God when they are going against God by sinning. But at other times, some do seek God, such as those who will in Romans 9:16 and those in the process of entering the kingdom in Matthew 23:13.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Luke13:24 NASB
    “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

    At a minimum, many lost people, more than a few, will seek the narrow door that leads to life eternal is supported by scripture. The assertion that no one ever seeks God is unbiblical nonsense.
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Psalms 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou hast the dew of thy youth.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Psalm 110:3 teaches that the LORD gave dominion to King David, and is not germane (go figure) to the thread topic.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Matthew 23:13 clearly teaches lost individuals had "some" real knowledge and understanding, for they were in the process of entering the kingdom. The biblical truth is the some of the lost seek God some of the time. Ditto for Romans 9:16 and the lost individuals that either "will" or "work" to be saved.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Luke 18:24-25
    And Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God! “For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God!”

    Ever wonder why it is hard for the wealthy to enter, if everyone entering has been compelled by irresistible grace. Why would they seek God as a refuge, if they were used to relying upon their wealth to provide their comfort and security? And more to the case at hand, it would be "hard" for those with wealth to abandon their worldly treasure, and make Christ their overriding priority? Like the third "soil" of Matthew 13, the rich young ruler could not abandon his worldly treasure. That is why it is "hard" for the wealthy.

    Why is this germane? Because the rich young ruler was seeking how to obtain eternal life, Luke 18:18.
    But the rich young ruler would not abandon is wealth. See Luke 18:23.
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Clearly, the passage is referring to Christ:

    Psalms 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    Also, you disagree with Jesus:

    Matthew 22:41-46 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

    The LORD said unto my Lord,
    Sit thou on my right hand,
    Till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

    If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Utter nonsense.

    The whole psalm of David does not address the lost seeking or not seeking God.

    Psalm 110:3 teaches that the LORD gave dominion to King David, and is not germane (go figure) to the thread topic. Yes, the dominion would go to "the Son of David" (Jesus our Lord). (Matthew 22:44).

    The Psalm has nothing whatsoever to do with the lost seeking or not seeking God. Obfuscation on display.​
     
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is not. Look at Psalms 110:4: The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

    Clearly, David is not "a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    More off-topic change the subject nonsense. I said, "Yes, the dominion would go to "the Son of David" (Jesus our Lord). (Matthew 22:44).

    Returning to topic, about about a half dozen separate verses have been cited where the lost seek God. None have been addressed as to the fact presented.

    2 Chronicles 15:4,
    Psalms 34:4,
    Acts of the Apostles 13:7,
    Psalms 14:4-5,
    Matthew 23:13,
    Luke 13:24,
    Luke 18:24:25,
     
    #11 Van, Oct 10, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2023
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Since you have been proven to be in error on Psalms 110, I don't blame you for trying to change the subject.

    However, you started this thread about seeking God, which Psalms 110:3 clearly addresses.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 9:31-32
    however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,

    Here is yet another passage teaching the lost seek God, in the case by works rather than faith. However, yet another proof that the lost do seek God some of the time.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, the natural man will seek God - on the natural man's terms. It is only when enabled and made willing by the power of God(Psalms 110:3) through spiritual regeneration that any vile, filthy, wretched sinner will seek God through Christ and His finished work and His righteousness.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Psalms 69:32
    The humble have seen it and are glad;
    You who seek God, let your heart revive.

    There is more evidence than you can shake a stick at of lost people seeking God.
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Here we are told those seeking God are not really seeking God. However, since Matthew 23:13 says those seeking God were actually in the process of "entering the kingdom" that disingenuous argument is shown to be false.

    If no one ever seeks God, how is it that "the natural man will seek God." :)
     
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, Christ's people, those made willing in the day of His power, not man's power (Psalms 110:3)
     
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I did not say that. I wrote: "Yes, the natural man will seek God - on the natural man's terms."

    The question is not the natural man's sincerity. It is that without the enabling power of regeneration by the Holy Spirit, no one will seek God through Christ and His finished work and His righteousness.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    More denial, more nonsense. Those seeking God, but not finding the narrow path that leads to life, Luke 13:24, were actually seeking God according to Jesus.
     
    #20 Van, Oct 10, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2023
Loading...