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Featured Seventh-day Adventists continued...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Jan 3, 2018.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Your appeal to emotionalism is merely "quoting you" again.

    Does it ever end??
     
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  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    No such thing as "investigative judgment". That's an EGW invention.

    One verse of Scripture sums up the whole SDA thingie:

    2 Tim. 3:5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Until you read Daniel 7

    "court sat - the books were opened.. judgment was passed in favor of the saints"

    Until you read Romans 2:4-16

    Until you read 2 Cor 5:10

    See? appeals to vitriol not the solution to every discussion.
     
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    These are in reference to the Great White Throne judgment, of course. EGW's stuff is a figment of her imagination. (or deliberate deceit)
     
  5. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Brother, the context of that text identifies that it is speaking of persons claiming the name of Jesus, but who do not live like Jesus lived. Notice also the words "godliness" [do a word search], and "power" of it. Ie, the demonstration, the walking the talk, as it is said, the godly "conversation", for no man spake like Jesus, because no one lived like Jesus, and his speaking matched perfectly with his doing, and thus so too for us who follow Him.

    The investigative judgment is found in type and in prophecy throughout the whole of scripture [KJB]:

    Another brief stop over in Ezra 2, we see an investigative judgment in type:

    Ezra 2:61 KJB - And of the children of the priests: the children of Habaiah, the children of Koz, the children of Barzillai; which took a wife of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite, and was called after their name:

    Ezra 2:62 KJB - These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.

    Ezra 2:63 KJB - And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.

    All of those priests coming back from the captivity of Babylon, had to be able to shew themselves by lineage, and had to pass through an investigation, to continue in their role as priests of God. Christians are kings and priests, a royal priesthood, and we have come out of the captivity. This is seen throughout the whole of scripture [KJB]:

    The Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation reveal in type and in Prophecy this great end-time Investigative Judgment, and in Exodus 28:15,29,30 KJB we see the breastplate upon the Highpriest, is called “the breastplate of judgment”.

    In Genesis 2 & 3, we see Eve being deceived into sin, though Adam was warned, and He having warned her, and Adam following in sin, and then "they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day", and God ['Jesus'] investigates, inquiring and asking questions [Genesis 3:9-19; not that God doesn't know, but it is for the benefit of the angels and Adam/Eve and us], having already warned man of the sentence for sin [Genesis 2:17], and then God carries out sentence, but also gives hope [Genesis 3:15].

    In Genesis 4, we see Cain and Abel, which both claimed to worship God, yet one was a son of that wicked one, satan. When Abel was killed by Cain, God came down and asked/inquired/investigated of Cain, before sentence was carried out.

    In Genesis 6-9, we see that the world was becoming wicked, and while many claimed to follow God, they were already inter-marrying with the children of Cain. God looks upon the world in investigation, before execution of Judgment by the Flood.

    In Genesis 10-11, we see that the people again rebelled, and God came down to see and look and investigate, before the execution of Judgment in the separation of the languages.

    In Genesis 17-19, we see that God had delivered the people of Lot and Sodom, and yet Sodom did not truly repent, and went further in rebellion, and God came down to see/investigate/judge before execution of Judgment. ...etc...

    In Leviticus 16 & 23, we see that Israel, and all that claimed to follow God, was to enter into the time of the typical Day of Atonement, wherein the Priest bore into the Sanctuary, upon the Breast plate of Judgment the people, represented by the stones. Anyone found not to be in harmony with God, in true repentance, was to be cut off at the end of it.

    In 1 Kings 3, we see Solomon [type of Christ] having an investigation between two persons [women] over a dead Child [Christ], and a living Child [Christ] to see who really loved the Child. Solomon investigates in a judgment setting upon His throne, and gives a test, and a sentence testing the loyalty of the True mother [true Church, worshippers] and the corruption of heart of the false mother [false church, worshippers].

    In Daniel 7, we see God the Father sitting in judgment, with the books of records being opened, and the angels ministering and searching the records, with Jesus present.

    In Zechariah 3, we see an investigative judgment, taking place in the Most Holy Place on the day of atonement, with Joshua the High priest.

    In Malachi 3, we see God sitting as a refiner, in judgment over his children.

    In the Gospels, Jesus himself came to see/investigate/judge Israel, before the execution of Judgment.

    In Matthew 18, we see God taking account of his servants, who had at one point received forgiveness, but later had it revoked.

    In Hebrews 9, we see this judgment was to begin with the dead, in the time of judgment.

    In 1 Peter 4, we see that God, at the time of Peter, was “ready” to judge, and would begin at the time specified in Daniel and in Leviticus 16 & 23.

    In Jude 1:15, we read of Jesus second advent to render and to “execute judgment” that was determined beforehand in the investigation.

    In Revelation 11, we see that the very Church, the Temple of God, was to be measured, sometime after the 1,260 years of Daniel.

    In Revelation 14, we see the very first Angel's message declare that the time of judgment had begun, and was going forward while the Everlasting Gospel was still being preached.

    … and so on.

    Notice, that when the Ancient of Days [the person of the Father] sat, multiple thrones were also placed, wherein the angels [which 10,000 etc surrounded Him] also sat, and books were opened. This judgment is for the angels to look into, because they cannot read the human heart as God can, and thus they need to see for themselves that God's judgments were right on who is to be let into a place without sin [Heaven]. The timing of the sequence in Daniel 7 [as shown in context and in chiastic structure, etc] reveals that this phase of judgment takes place after the rise of Rome and its divisions, and before the second advent, and the kingdom come. It is unbreakable in its order. The judgment therein is even taking place while the little horn is still blaspheming on earth, before it is destroyed, before the number of the kingdom of Heaven is made up.

    Daniel 7 is in 4 main parts.

    Daniel 7:1-14 KJB the vision of Daniel
    Daniel 7:15-18 KJB the super summary of the whole vision by Gabriel [even vss 17,18]
    Daniel 7:19-22 KJB Daniel asking about it again, and a specific
    Daniel 7:23-28 KJB Gabriel, once more going over the whole in more detail

    Thus Daniel, Gabriel, Daniel, Gabriel. Each portion intimately tied to the other, so that the timing thereof cannot be broken between each section.

    Daniel 7:22 KJB - Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    Until [refers to the previous time portion in earlier verse, the leading up to 1844, thus the 1,260 years, 538-1798]

    Ancient of Days did sit [refers to 1844 until the close of probation]

    judgment was given to the saints of the most High [refers to 1,000 years, see Rev 20:4, "given unto", see also Paul, know ye not that the saints will judge angels [fallen], the world [lost].]

    and the time came [end of the 1,000 years, see Rev. 20, Isaiah 24, etc] that the saints posesses the kingdom [being New Heaven and New Earth]

    Ezekiel 1-9, shows the same, wherein a investigative judgment goes forward, and then execution of that judgment takes place after, beginning with the elders of the temple/sanctuary on down to the least.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Until you read Daniel 7

    "court sat - the books were opened.. judgment was passed in favor of the saints"

    Until you read Romans 2:4-16

    Until you read 2 Cor 5:10

    See? appeals to vitriol not the solution to every discussion.

    Without any attention at all to detail you offer wild speculation to preface your vitriol and acrimony??

    How "unexpected".

    The Great White Throne judgment of Rev 20 happens after the millennium

    But in Daniel 7 the judgment that you see there happens before the 2nd coming while saints on earth are being persecuted!!

    Bible Details.. details... details... all to be ignored for the sake of one's overwhelming desire for vitriol and acrimony??

    In Rev 14:6-7 that judgment hour going on WHILE there are people on earth to be evangelized with the Gospel "having an everlasting gospel to preach to the whole earth... saying ...give glory to God for the hour of His judgment HAS come"

    Bible Details.. details... details... all to be ignored for the sake of one's overwhelming desire for vitriol and acrimony??

    How sad.

    =========================================

    In Rev 12 we have a picture of Satan - as the "accuser of the brethren" his methods include "false accusation" against the saints. His gospel is "less Bible details - more acrimony and vitriol". He has been at war against the messages God gave to the Bible writers and to Ellen White for a long time.

    One who is a Christian cannot afford to take up those methods and wrap himself in them.
     
    #126 BobRyan, Jan 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You deny that she and the Sda teach all listed here then?
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    ONLY the lost sinners will be judged by God in the GWT, as ALL who have been saved by the Grace of God will be kept saved by that same God!
    Per Jesus,Paul and Jude, among others!
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Apostle John stated that we RIGHT NOW have ternal life, and can never lose it, per Jesus Himself!
    Who do you believe, EW or Jesus Christ?
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    the false doctrine of OSAS does not survive the Bible details

    OSAS does not survive the Bible details
    in Matthew 18 where we see "forgiveness revoked"
    does not survive the Bible details in Romans 11 where we see 'salvation revoked"
    Does not survive the Bible details in John 15 where those 'in Christ" are cut off and burned up.
    Does not survive the Bible details in Ezek 18 where we see forgiveness revoked.
    Does not surive the Bible details in Ephesians 6 where we see salvation revoked

    Does not survive Paul's statement in 1 Cor 9 - "LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it"

    Does not survive Romans 2:13
    Does not survive Romans 2:4-9
    Does not survive the details of Gal 4 "I fear I have labored over you in vain"

    These are not just "so many Bible texts to be ignored" --


    you keep "quoting you" as if you are your Bible... were we simply "not supposed to notice"??
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Until you read Daniel 7

    "court sat - the books were opened.. judgment was passed in favor of the saints"
    Until you read Romans 2:4-16
    Until you read 2 Cor 5:10

    See? appeals to vitriol not the solution to every discussion.

    Without any attention at all to detail you offer wild speculation to preface your vitriol and acrimony??

    you are free to quote yourself of course. and certainly we both agree that in the end - there are the saved and there are the lost.

    I just prefer the actual Bible.
     
  12. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Brother, God will judge even His own people:

    Psalms 7:8 KJB - The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

    Psalms 50:4 KJB - He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.

    Psalms 135:14 KJB - For the LORD will judge his people, and he will repent himself concerning his servants.

    Ecclesiastes 3:17 KJB - I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

    Isaiah 33:22 KJB - For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.

    Ezekiel 34:17 KJB - And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.

    Matthew 7:2 KJB - For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

    Acts 10:42 KJB - And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

    2 Timothy 4:8 KJB - Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

    Hebrews 10:30 KJB - For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

    Hebrews 12:23 KJB - To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

    Revelation 14:7 KJB - Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    etc, etc.

    It is very clear. God judges even His people, which means there is a specific time for this to take place, and must take place before the entering into Heaven.
     
  13. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Please consider these texts, closely:

    John 3:15 KJB - That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    "believeth", is not a mere moment in time.

    John 6:54 KJB - Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Did we eat and drink only once? Or is it "daily"?

    If you consider all of John's gospel witness, and even the epistles, you will notice the modifiers, like these. "Believeth", "follow", "eat", etc, etc. There are also other words associated throughout the Bible, "seek for", "may", etc, etc.

    Notice that the "eternal life" "given" unto us, is "in" Christ Jesus:

    1 John 5:11 KJB - And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

    It then becomes the matter of whosoever remains "abiding" in Him, or whether we are separated from Him by our own choice, and become as a branch no longer connected to the vine, and become a cast away, a reprobate, good for nothing, but to be burned, or thrown out as salt that lost its savour, etc.

    Passages such as John 10:25-30 KJB, and likewise, reveal that it is only possible for ones-self to leave the hand of Jesus. None may force that hand to let go of us, neither to forcefully take us out, but we may choose to leave, as Lucifer, as Adam [a Son of God, even before sin], as King Saul [who had been given another heart]. It is not a matter of human strength over God's infinite power, but it is a matter of love, for it will not force anyone to remain should they willingly choose to let go, though He still attempts to woo us back to himself [even as King David, who had to pray for a new heart, after his sin and separation from God].

    I believe in Jesus who called and sent sister Ellen G. White, as was foretold in prophecy and in typology.
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    First, Scripture PROVES all people are judged during their earthly lives. In Jesus' parable, the rich man found himself in 'torments' upon his death while the beggar Lazarus went to paradise, with no acts in between. The GWT judgment is the "official" seal upon the final disposition of all souls. The actual verdicts were finalized immediately upon the physical deaths of all.

    (BTW, I don't use the KJV, {not "KJB"} much at all. I read God's word in OUR English.)
     
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    So, are you denying that upon death, one's soul goes immediately to either paradise or torments, as they've already been judged?
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    read Daniel 7

    "court sat - the books were opened.. judgment was passed in favor of the saints"


    read Romans 2:4-16
    13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


    Until you read 2 Cor 5:10
    10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.



    "it is appointed unto man once to DIE and THEN comes the judgment" Heb 9

    Rev 11 "the temple in heaven was opened...and the TIME came for the dead to be judged"

    Rev 14:6-7 "6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

    I prefer the actual Bible


     
    #136 BobRyan, Jan 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  17. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    There are multiple phases of judgment, as has been demonstrated before, in some detail.

    I am glad to hear someone who is 'baptist' admit to Luke 16 of the Rich man and Lazarus being a parable, for normally when I speak with 'baptists', they deny any such thing, and I have been banned in other 'baptist' forums on such points. Anyways, a person cannot bring up a parable and simply assert that it supports anyone's theology, unless that parable is first expounded, exegeted line upon line from the text.

    For instance, going back to Luke 14, Jesus said that the "recompense" [the reward, etc] is at the resurrection of the just, not upon one's death, for the dead cannot receive anything [Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10 KJB; etc]:

    Luke 14:14 KJB - And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

    Therefore, before simply relying upon a single passage, even a parable at that, exclusive of all that which was provided to you, and others, perhaps it would be better to study that parable more closely, and see how it perfectly aligns with all that which was said about 'the investigative judgment', from Genesis to Revelation.

    The Great White Throne Judgment, takes place chronologically at the end of the 1,000 years, as per Isaiah 24; Revelation 20, etc.

    Revelation 20, like Daniel, is also written in a specific order, with repetitions, or cycles.

    However, consider Revelation 20:7 -

    Revelation 20:7 KJB - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    Revelation 20:11 KJB - And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    What does the scripture [KJB] mean when it says, "... and there was no place found for them."?

    Daniel 2:35 KJB - Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

    What is the "no place"?

    What does it mean by "found"?

    Who are the "them"?

    If we consider the previous context, the "found" refers to the searching of "the books" that were "opened", being done, this time not by the heavenly angels as during the 'investigative judgment' [Daniel 7:9-10 KJB], but now by the immortalized "saints" who, during the 1,000 years in Heaven [Revelation 20:4 KJB, "given unto"], were judging the [lost] "angels" and the [lost] "world" [1 Corinthians 6:2,3 KJB], as Daniel 7 showed [Daniel 7:22 KJB, "given to"], and agreeing with the judgments of God, as written in the word, see Psalms 149:1-9; John 12:48; John 8:7; Matthew 5:18 KJB, notice what takes place therein, for since the saints then being immortal, and caught up, are in Heaven at this point [during 1,000 years] are now "without sin", and afterwards, the breakers of God's law may now be "stoned" [even a fiery hail; Revelation 20:9 KJB], "outside [without]" [Leviticus 24:14; Numbers 15:30-36; Revelation 20:9 KJB] the "city", "New Jerusalem", which since came down from Heaven upon the earth, after the 1,000 years.

    No place in Heaven or in earth was "found" for them, neither in the book of life, and so, since there was "no place" "found", they [all the wicked who ever lived] were to be executed for high treason against the government, and character and Law of God, and destroyed, never to exist again. The old heaven and earth are to be consumed, and swallowed up, and the wicked are to have no place anywhere in God's created order, because they wanted no place in it, except by their own disorder, rebellion and sin.

    The lake of fire burns upon the earth, out side of the New Jerusalem upon the whole of the earth, and New Jerusalem will be as the Ark upon the great flood of fire, as in the days of Noah [by water]. Once the fire consumes all wickedness, it goes out into smoke and ashes, having nothing more to burn, consume. God, then recreates the Heaven and the Earth, and the saints inherit the Kingdom [Daniel 7:22 KJB], just like Noah did.
     
    #137 One Baptism, Jan 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  18. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 10:30 PM Pacific.
     
  19. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This thread is closed.
     
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