Seventh-Day Adventists

Gerhard,

Take up the details with Bob Ryan. He is much better at that than I am. I cannot understand what it is you are actually trying to say half the time.

Claudia

 

The nature of prejudice is the bait and switch technique.
Here is an example of that twisted logic.

Bait. The SDA is a Cult (doesn't agree with my religion)
switch. by definition 'cult' is a control freak and some follower freaks
- cults are evil
- The SDA is evil
- we are justified vilifying the SDA and people who are SDA

But however you justify your prejudice about the SDA,
prejudice is evil.

 

Quoted by ClaudiaT:
""I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to any one who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No; by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' and lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church. 'Priest Enright, C.S.S.R., Kansas City, Missouri."

GE:

A typical example of dodging the real issue with regard to the 'Sabbath-issue'! Its strength: Disinformation!

So in actual fact the priest is lying --- and if this without carefull consideration is accepted by the Adventist Church or by Claudia or by anyone, then so is she or he or it, lying. Lying for not telling the truth, the truth only and the whole truth!

For it is simply untrue what the priest says here both as to the RCC and "the entire civilized world" of Christianity, while it is for certain, that both the RCC and he entire Christian world believed in and accepted and practiced Sunday-sacredness on this grond first: The Christ 'according to Scriptures', rose from the dead, on Sunday. That's the foundation-stone of this phenomenon in Christianity upon which the RCC relies as much as Protestantism ... and have always relied ... and since its inception in Christianity, has worked to establish.

Which brings us to the very core and subsatnce of Sunday-sacredness within Christianity: The Scriptures ... as inspired by the ingenuity of man, and not by the Holy Spirit, but contrary to it.

 

Sounds to me like somebody can't keep their organizations
straight. The 7 million world-wide Jehovah's Witnesses
believe only 144,000 of them will go to heaven.
So they have a contest as to who shall work the hardest
to get to heaven. But that isn't the SDA.

 

Whoever claims full understanding of the 144000 advertises his own ignorance. I don't know about the SDAC on this.

 

Ed,

Thank you, I really appreciate what you just said.

Claudia

 

ED,

and thank you AGAIN... Its nice to see that somebody actually looks into other organization's beliefs before saying anything about it.

Claudia

 

Instead of picking at little things you ought to take a look at the whole picture.

 

You are welcome.

I could be a Seventh Day Adventist (SDA).
I could never be a Jehovah's Witness (JW).
But I'll stay a Southern Baptist
(a 55 year long habit is hard to break)

(My pastor is 66, I am 63 - he promised to bury me .):tonofbricks:

 

Well never say never... maybe some day you will become an SDA. I dont thank God would mind if your Baptist Pastor buried you, regardless LOL!

 

Don't let him get behind you with a shovel in his hand!

Got an uncle who thought one of his turkeys was dead in the turkey lot so he took a hoe to bury him. When he climbed up the hill to the turkey lot the turkey was running around completely alive! My uncle knocked him in the head with the hoe and said " I came here to bury you and I am going to bury you".

 

If keeping the Sabbath is so important then what about all the other rules in the bible? What about the levitical law? Do 7th day adventists also keep all these hundreds of rules from the OT?

I have once seen this bald 7th day adventists preacher on the 7th day adventist channel and he tried to make it look like every christian who doesn't worship on Saturday is breaking the law and going to hell, that settled the issue for me and I decided to watch something else. :type:

 

THINK, do you see anything in the New Testament that tells you to keep all the levitical laws of the Old Testament? NO

Do you see anything in the New Testament that tells you to keep all the Ten Commandments? YES

That was simple, wasnt it? : )

Romans 13:
8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10: Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.



1Jn:2:4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


Claudia

 

Where does the new testament say this? Do you successfully keep all 10 commandments? If you try to keep them and are not able then they aren't you doomed because you tried to keep them and weren't able to?

 

Get a desktop Bible and type in the word "Commandments" and see what it comes up with in the New Testament.

Ask God about the rest of it. He doesnt command you to do something without expecting you to do it.


1Jn:2:3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jn:2:4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn:3:22: And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn:3:24: And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn:5:2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.







I am continually amazed at Christians, do you think all these verses here (and there are scores more of them) that tell us to keep the Commandments actually means that we dont need to keep the commandments or what?

SERIOUSLY... stop trifling with God!


Apparently they were walking in the commandments just as well and as good as God expected them to and so it isnt "impossible"...

Lk:1:6: And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

God wants YOUR HEART, YOUR LOYALTY, YOUR LOVE... He isnt nearly as legalistic as some make Him out to be. Of course you will often fall and fail...


...do you see this? do not sin, but if you fail and do sin, dont worry, you have an Advocate, Jesus:

1Jn:2:1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous




OKAY let's try it this way...



WHAT IS SIN? Transgression of the Law:

1Jn:3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Well should we go on sinning (transgressing the Law) now because we are under grace? answer it yourself ...yes or no (choose one):


Rom:6:1,2:
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom:6:15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Heaven's sake people, this is simple enough for a child to comprehend.

Claudia

 

Thats ANOTHER reason people say the Seventh Day Adventist Church is a "Cult"... because we tell people they need to keep the Comandments...


Well gee I cant imagine why we do that!

ummmmmmmm maybe because the Bible tells us to in every way imaginable?


AND just in case you missed that along the way God makes sure to tell you that God's people who DONT receive the Mark of the Beast are "they that keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD":

Revelation 14:6-12
6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8: And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10: The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


hmmmmmm you think maybe this is important or something? This idea of keeping the Commandments?


Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rv:14:12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rv:22:14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Claudia

 

Hi Claudia,

Personally, and frankly every Baptist should preface their comments with personally, I believe we are called by God's Grace to fulfill the Commandments through the 'higher law' given to us by Jesus Christ:

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. - Matthew 22:37-40

I believe this to be also the liberty we share 'in Christ':

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. - Galatians 5:13-14

So Christ came not to destroy the Law but to fulfill it by revealing it's source, the only source which can fulfill God's Commandments:

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. - Galatians 5:6

With this said I would be cautious with any legalism as a means to establish one's righteousness, either through grace or by works.

If love lifts us up then we will walk in the covenant which written on our hearts not on any books for love fulfills the law...

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. - Romans 13:8

May God bring you grace and peace. Amen.

 

Unfortunately it is not possible for me to backup my statements, as it is impossible for me to post excerpts from 12 DVD’s. The man I was speaking of was Shawn Boonstra, who is the head speaker of “It Is Written”.

As far as Sabbath Keeping, and Sunday worship, the SDA blames it on the Catholic Church, and Constantine. Well I doubt you are aware either that the SDA has had to restate that - because of a letter of record written by Justin the martyr to the Roman Empore in AD 150. Who stated that the Christians met on the first day of each week, he went on to describe their gatherings. So because of this the SDA has now stated the day was changed in AD 140, but they don’t know who to blame it on because there was no RCC in AD 140.

I don’t hold with the RCC, I can think of none I would reject any quicker, but they have enough to answer to let alone to blame them with anymore. Although I am sure they would like to have the credit. And it is in their Cataclysm, but they were just a day late, and a dollar short on this one.

As for Soul Sleep I guess we now have to call Paul, and the Bible a liar:

Eccl 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
KJV

2 Cor 5:8
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
KJV

2 Cor 12:2-4
2: I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3: And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)
4: How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
KJV

This happened at the time of Pauls stoning, at which time his followers drug him form the city apparently dead.

Acts 14:19-20
19: And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
20: Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
KJV

Pretty spry for a man who has just been pummeled with a bunch of rocks wouldn’t you say, to return into the city, and travel the roads the next day. I doubt if any of us could do it, apart form a Miracle of God.

This does not confirm he was dead, but along with his later statement in 2nd. Corinthians, we most certainly can assume so. He very well could not have been taken bodily, that would have been raptured, and he would have not returned. But rather his Spirit ascended into the third Heaven. Seems he was pretty well aware, don’t come with the vision thing, Paul did not call this a vision. For sake of humility he would not confirm dead or alive, you can find this if you read the whole passage.

As far as Christians under Grace keeping any laws of pure morality, because the law is not moral but rather spiritual. As James said step over one point you step over all, and become guilty under the law, which you will be judged by. Unfortunately, and goes on to say that no man may be justified by law. But rather condemned by it. SO you see the SDA cannot select only one of the Mosaic laws to obey without obeying all of them.

But those under Grace can by the Power of the spirit of Christ Jesus, who was the beginning and the end of the Mosaic laws. Who though not having to - subjected himself to them, so that we might be justified by his life. Who sacrificed himself on the cross, and shed his blood for the forgiveness of our sins, and put the body of flesh to death. Who we; who share in his death, are dead to the rudiments of the Law and no longer bound by them.

 

Galatians 5:
13: For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14: For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15: But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17: For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18: But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20: Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21: Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24: And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.


Do you understand now that when we crucify our sin,,, crucify the flesh... and begin walking in the Spririt... producing the fruits of the Spirit (love, defined in the Bible as the ten commandments -Romans 13:8-10) - that THEN we are no longer "Under the CONDEMNATION OF that law"? Why? because... Galatians 5 verse 22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


There IS NO LAW against love! Love IS the Law, the Law IS love! so when we begin keeping the law, THEN we are no longer "under the condemnation of the law of sin and death" you see? Why? BECAUSE WE ARE NO LONGER VIOLATING THAT LAW! Now if someone tries to teach you that the Bible says we are now free from KEEPING THE LAW... you can KNOW they are a false teacher!


And now you might say, "But we are under the new covenant now, and thus we no longer are expected to keep God's ten commandment law!" Reader, do you feel this way? ...if so, then you are misunderstanding the old and new covenants!


The terms of the old covenant were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26.
But the new covenant was established upon "better promises"--the promise of forgiveness of sins and of the grace of God to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law.


"This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts . . . . I will forgive their iniquity, and will remember their sin no more." Jeremiah 31:33, 34.


Hebrews 8:
6: But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8: For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people


And now going back to the subject of "love"... we saw that the antichrist spirit will NOT teach that we must be born again and walk in LOVE (I John 4:1-8). And WHAT IS LOVE? are we now free to define that for ourselves? NO! Many have the mistaken idea that in New Testament times, under the new covenant, we must only have "love" and that the Ten Commandments are merely a "dead letter" that we need no longer concern ourselves with. However, the principles of love are defined within God's Ten Commandment Law.


Let's listen to the Jesus...
"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked Jesus a question, saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:36-40 The reason that Jesus said, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" is because the first 4 commandments define love to God (Thou shalt have no other gods before me, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, etc.) and the last 6 define love to thy neighbor (Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal). This same idea is repeated by the Apostle Paul in the book of Romans:


"...he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended (summarized) in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. " Romans 13:8,9: So you see then that love to God and neighbor is merely a SUMMARY of or is briefly comprehended in the Ten Commandment Law. And not only that but both Jesus and Paul were merely reiterating what had already been declared in old Testament times! Watch this:


"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:4,5.


"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Leviticus 19:18.


Sound familiar? Jesus was merely quoting directly out of the old testament when He said Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


God's claims have always been the same. Jesus did not really give us a "new" commandment to keep, He was bringing to light the foundation principles of love which have always underlined the ten commandments of old. This is why John said the following words:


"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning." I John 2:3-7. The principles of His government are the same. For all proceed from Him "with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." James 1:17.

 

You have to realize that the first 4 commandments (keep the Sabbath, have no idols, dont take the Lord's name in vain, etc) have to do with "Love to God" and the last 6 commandments (dont steal, dont kill, etc) have to do with "Love to your Neighbor" and that is why Jesus said on these two commandments hang the whole Law. That didnt mean to do away with the Law, for He also said:

Mt:5:17,18:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

a Jot and a Tittle means the dotting of an "i" and the crossing of the "t"...


LOVE Has ALWAYS been the foundation of the 10 commandments. Jesus wasnt stating anything new, He was bringing to light that which had bee forgotten by the people...

Mt:23:23: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.