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Featured Should Christians Judge Outside the Church?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Zaac, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree, we certainly should address these issues within the Church - it is a problem which can be seen when churches actually embrace sin.

    But I would also add that it is also likely he has many churches more concerned about the gay agenda and liberal policies than they are about the gospel. This too is a work of Satan, and a distraction from the Kingdom work.
     
  2. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    AMEN!!!:applause:
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the truth is that IF the church of Christ here in USA taught and preached rightly the rel Gospel, there would be a strong moral climate thatwould NOT have Homosexual agenda, liberal theology, healtha nd wealth, word of faith, abortion rights etc, as people being saved by the Grace of God would reject that as being of the enemy!

    we can and should be doing both in the church, teaching/preaching that Jesus is the Messiah, but also to be the salt that perserves society as Jesus said that we were!
     
    #43 Yeshua1, Sep 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2013
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Talk about a “naked” assertion – but some clothes on that bad boy! :smilewinkgrin:


    It didn’t happen that way with the early church and they taught and preached the real gospel. Social injustice and sin were not eradicated, homosexuality didn’t vanish, paganism wasn’t abolished...(the closest you have is the rise of the RCC way down the road – but I don’t think that’s what you mean). The gospel was preached and many who listened to the gospel rejected it.
     
  5. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    You're called to judge inside the church. It makes no good sense to focus on ANY specific sin when a people are on the way to hell as the result of all of their unforgiven sin.

    That's why you preach the Gospel outside the church.

    The truth is that if the CHURCH was dealing with those within the CHurch the way that God has said to, there would be a difference.
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  7. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    Well, actually.....

    I'm not disagreeing with you. Your statement is well said! Still, I believe we've been called to be witnesses First! The judging thing, while I agree should remain in the church, it is something we need to use sparingly and only after much prayer and investigation!

    Too many believers are willing to "Jump to conclusions" way to quickly. And it is that jump that hurts those they judge, sometimes irreparably!

    Like the man said [it may have been a woman] the church is the only institution that kills its wounded! How sad, and we do it under the cover of night and the title of judging! Judging can often cross the line of gossip, so when it is excercised within the church, it should be done, again, after an exhaustive investigation of the facts.

    When we judge we need to remember that the blood may end up on our hands! I've seen too many churches and groups within the church use what they colored as "righteous judgement" just an excuse to prune back the branches, and in doing so, pushing undesirables out the door and from the fellowship!

    Like my daddy once told me, a physical wound can heal and maybe leave a scar, but words leave no physical scar, just lingering spiritual and emotional pain. Sort of like a festering wound that never heals, totally!

    I'm not saying the church shouldn't judge, but only as a last resort. And only when you dot every "i" and cross every "t". Once the words are said, they will be hard to forget!
     
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I Read a few posts and came right to the end, so if this has already been pointed out, I'm sorry, but it never gets old IMO.

    Yes! absolutely we should judge.

    But judge righteous judgment as a physician not as judge and jury.

    See the symptoms of sin in your brother (either your brother in Adam or in the Lord).

    Pour in the oil and wine of prayer and the everlasting gospel.

    Let them know that you have had the very same disease and were healed.

    Then refer him/her to the Great Physician.

    HankD
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We can and must make judgement NOT upon if a person can get saved or not, that is the work ogf the lord, but MUSTjudge as being ungodly and against the Lord behaviours such as homosexuality, abortion, having flase gods, other religions being false etc!
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, it took awhile, but the Roamn Empire did indeed adopt better morals and standards as a directr result of the influence of the Gospel, by sinners getting saved thru and by it...

    And movements like abloshing slavery, women rights etc were moved greatly thru the influence of the gospelm, and christians who saw that God would and could transfoem the culture thru redemption of sinners!
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Thus your reticence in commenting on the Zimmerman/Martin situation.
     
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It didn’t in the span of pre-Catholic Rome. This highlights where we may disagree. I believe the Church to be composed of a body of believers, not a society that is focused on Christian morals. I reject the concept that we can transform cultures into “Christian cultures” by forcing a set of values. So yes, in the way you are presenting it, Rome did become “Christian” – but it was a false and forced Christianity.

    I agree that the Church stands as the sanctified body of Christ. I agree that we speak out against sin, mostly by living a life dedicated to Christ. But I don’t believe that the Church is charged with the task of making sinners stop sinning. Those who insist on throwing “pearls” before swine deserve the treatment they receive because they were warned in Scripture not to do so. We preach the gospel to the lost, but too often we seem to doubt the ability of the gospel to change lives. Instead we want to change lives. Not everyone will be saved, and I actually believe that God gives some over to sin. Since I believe it unbiblical to “judge” the world and I reject the notion of “Christendom” being a biblical concept, we will not agree. I am certainly open to persuasion - via Scripture.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I should also add that I understand why Christians are so saddened and even angered by the sin in the world. I do not condone advocating or ignoring sin, which is why I objected to P4T’s misstatement. But the church needs to be the church, and not a force for social change.
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The church as Americans needs to be a force for social change because that is what this country was founded on. Its very founding promotes this very idea from all of its citizens. There is no prohibition in scripture against it and Christians have a duty according to scripture to be part of our communities so long as it is not contrary to scripture.
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Rev,

    What are "save the date" attack cards?
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We are to be the body of Christ, and are to function in that manner. Individually we are involved in social change - after all, we do have a voice and a vote. But to say that the Church is to "judge" the world (in the present) is not biblical - or if it is no one has supported their statements with Scripture - they have only offered opinion (and have not justified this opinion in regards to Scripture previously stated).

    Perhaps it is my mistake - I didn't respond to change other's mind but to examine my own beliefs and thought that those who responded that we are to "judge the world" had a biblical stance for their view. Obviously I was wrong.
     
    #56 JonC, Sep 21, 2013
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  17. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    It's called being a self righteous ignorant troll.
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Are you saying that Christians should not act differently from the world or that the Church should not exercise discipline unless it is willing to “judge” the world?
     
  19. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    Salt works both ways bub.
     
  20. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    Please QUIT Straddling the Fence of Christian Morality...

    I just had to jump in on this, because the truth on you is as mysterious as a sleight of hand flim flam man! One needs to stand for something! You can't go through life with a foot in heaven and a foot in hell! Unless you have a clandestine motive for being a fence sitter! :wavey:
     
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