Should Houses of Worship be Placed Under Surveillance?

[Zaac]

We do streaming over the internet and place all of our services online so it would be a waste of resources to "surveillance" our church.

But while on FOX News, Rudy Giuliani said

“If you’re uncomfortable with police officers at your services, you must be saying things that are dangerous.”

"You Don't Need Probable Cause To Put A Police Officer In A Church, A Mosque, A Temple"

Is this a good or bad thing?

 

[InTheLight]

Is this a good or bad thing?

I think you are asking: Is putting churches under surveillance a good or bad thing?

As a routine matter, no. But as a part of a criminal investigation, sure. If a police officer, either undercover or in uniform (unlikely), is following a lead on a suspect and attends the church to see if said suspect is there, I see nothing wrong with that. I would hope the police would notify the pastor beforehand.

 

[PreachTony]

I think you are asking: Is putting churches under surveillance a good or bad thing?

As a routine matter, no. But as a part of a criminal investigation, sure. If a police officer, either undercover or in uniform (unlikely), is following a lead on a suspect and attends the church to see if said suspect is there, I see nothing wrong with that. I would hope the police would notify the pastor beforehand.

I agree, ITL, that if a single worshiper is under investigation, then the police should at least contact the pastor, just to let them know what will be going on. If the OP means 'should a church be under surveillance for something a church officer said,' then the answer should be a stance in the name of freedom of speech. Now, as we all know, Freedom of Speech is limited by certain things, and I would certainly hope that church officials are not standing up and saying outright dangerous things to incite people to violence, though it would be the first time...

“If you’re uncomfortable with police officers at your services, you must be saying things that are dangerous.”

Quotes like this, and the ever popular "I'm not doing anything wrong, so I wouldn't mind if the police wanted to search me" infuriate me. This type of reasoning is how we give up our freedoms in the name of a little temporary security that risks becoming an ever-watchful big brother hanging over all we do.

 

[InTheLight]

Quotes like this, and the ever popular "I'm not doing anything wrong, so I wouldn't mind if the police wanted to search me" infuriate me. This type of reasoning is how we give up our freedoms in the name of a little temporary security that risks becoming an ever-watchful big brother hanging over all we do.

Yep. A good analogy I once heard was, "Why don't people put their toilets in the living room? They're not doing anything wrong. They're not doing anything that other people don't do. What are you hiding?"

People should have the freedom to decide what (legal) activities they want to keep private. Has nothing to do with a presumed guilt by another party.

 

[church mouse guy]

In the case of the mosques in NYC and elsewhere in the world, it is often the leader of the services that is under surveillance. You can't preach sedition and expect that only left wingers like Wilhelm De Blasio will ignore it. If you services are open to the public, then anyone has the right to attend. Of course, Anton LaVey of the Church of Satan locked the door at a certain point in the services, warning people to leave if they did not want to be locked inside until the end of the service.

 

[poncho]

In the case of the mosques in NYC and elsewhere in the world, it is often the leader of the services that is under surveillance. You can't preach sedition and expect that only left wingers like Wilhelm De Blasio will ignore it. If you services are open to the public, then anyone has the right to attend. Of course, Anton LaVey of the Church of Satan locked the door at a certain point in the services, warning people to leave if they did not want to be locked inside until the end of the service.

How come you know so much about Anton LaVey?

 

[Rolfe]

Of course, Anton LaVey of the Church of Satan locked the door at a certain point in the services, warning people to leave if they did not want to be locked inside until the end of the service.

Side note: This actually happened to two relatives of mine about fifteen years ago...in a Baptist church. They were forbidden to leave until the husband threatened the usher with bodily harm if he did not unlock the door. Of course, they no longer attend.

 

[Zaac]

Quotes like this, and the ever popular "I'm not doing anything wrong, so I wouldn't mind if the police wanted to search me" infuriate me. This type of reasoning is how we give up our freedoms in the name of a little temporary security that risks becoming an ever-watchful big brother hanging over all we do.

I think this is the part that really bugged me. From what I could glean from the conversation, he was saying that the Feds should be able to keep houses of worship under surveillance whether or not they have done anything wrong, but if they fit the profile of a place that may be a hotbed for wrong stuff to originate, that it's okay.

I know that the Feds are gonna do what they want regardless. But there just seems to be no end to how far they can impede into your life even if you haven't done anything.

That darn Patriot Act again. But they would have done it with or without the legislation.

 

[Zaac]

Side note: This actually happened to two relatives of mine about fifteen years ago...in a Baptist church. They were forbidden to leave until the husband threatened the usher with bodily harm if he did not unlock the door. Of course, they no longer attend.

I had an usher try that one time. Blocked the door. I told him that either he was gonna unlock the door and get out the way, or I was going through him. I never went back to that church. :laugh:

 

[church mouse guy]

How come you know so much about Anton LaVey?

Old age--LaVey used to be in the news from time to time. I think that his services descended into debauchery. As for the Islamists, remember that their organization is first military, then political, and finally two-cents worth of arab theology so they hide under western freedoms to plan their nazi deeds.