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Should I believe the author?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by stilllearning, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Years ago as a young Christian, I found something in my daily study of God’s word......
    Psalms 12:6,7
    6 The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

    This discovery wonderfully blesses my heart, and continues to every time come across it, in my regular study of God’s Word.

    Then many years later, I was reading something somewhere, and read how another Christian had made the same discovery, and I knew how he felt.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Then years later, I found out that there is a controversy over my interpretation of this passage;
    So I had a decision to make.
    (Was I going to believe what people say about this passage, or was I going to believe the author of the Bible?)

    I have the Holy Spirit, and praise the LORD, the Holy Spirit testifies to my heart, that this passage is talking about God’s promise to preserve His Word.

    So how can I be wrong?
    1 John 2:27
    “But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
     
  2. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member

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    It has nothing to do with believing the author. It's your opinion on what the author meant.
     
  3. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely agree! The Hebrew=God's words here.

    Thanks for the reminder about a terrific passage :)
     
  4. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    Believe the author? Yes. Believe your KJVO interpretation? No way.

    God's word is pure. It is purer than the author even wrote, but he was writing figuratively (it is poetry, after all). Silver that had been purified seven times would be as pure as they could make it back then, and its shine and luster was a perfect reflection of the holiness of God.

    But is this passage foretelling the KJV? Not by a long shot.
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Active Member

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    Virtually every other valid translation, old or new, shows that their makers believed that Ps. 12:7 is about PEOPLE.

    Geneva Bible:Thou wilt keepe them, O Lord: thou wilt preserue him from this generation for euer.

    Bishop's Bible:[Wherfore] thou wylt kepe the godly, O God: thou wylt preserue euery one of them from this generation for euer.

    ESV:You, O LORD, will keep them; you will guard us from this generation forever.

    The AV translators believed likewise, as is PROVEN by their marginal note in the AV1611 for the 2nd them in that verse: "Heb. him, I. euery one of them." Knowing this verse was about more than one person, they subbed a plural pronoun for the singular one, but included the literal translation in their marginal note.

    Clearly, V7 is about PEOPLE.

    But, even if V7 was about God's words, there's not one quark of evidence to indicate it's about the KJV! This is a goofy notion, taken from Dr. Wilkinson's book, as are so many other goofy things the KJVOs use to attempt to justify their belief in their MAN-MADE doctrine.
     
  6. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    This is the biggest thing that bothers me about the KJVO argument. There were very clear words placed in the KJV 1611 to help understand the translating of the words and those notes have been removed - and now those very same things that the translators notated are the things the KJVOliers argue against.
     
  7. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hello annsni

    You said........
    I am neither arguing, nor does this thread have anything to do with the KJV.

    It has to do with, “God’s preservation of His Word”:
    And.....“The Holy Spirit’s ability and willingness, to correct us if we are wrong.”
    --------------------------------------------------
    As for the later, the only time I think the Holy Spirit won’t correct a person, is if they aren’t listening.

    Therefore, If I am listening with all my heart, and truly desirous know the truth and faithfully study God’s Word looking for the truth, I would expect the Holy Spirit to let me know if my interpretation of this passage is wrong.

    And I wouldn’t need those “marginal note”, that you referred to.
     
  8. Forever settled in heaven

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    snarky OP

    turning the question around, shd we believe the original Author when it says, of Jesus' Messiahship and Mediatorship to my immense blessing and comfort, these words:

    OR, when it says, with as much personal blessing to the reader:

    I have the Holy Spirit, and praise the LORD, and the Holy Spirit testifies to my heart, that this passage is talking about God’s promise to preserve His children.

    So how can I be wrong?
     
    #8 Forever settled in heaven, Mar 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2010
  9. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    Very good point. I pulled out my 1611 version and sure enough there is a translators note for the word them in verse seven. It reads:

    Heb. him, i, every one of them.
     
  10. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    Yet put "him", "I" or "every one of them" in the text and you've now messed with the Word of God even though the original translators say that the margin notes will include words that could be equally valid in the text.
     
  11. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    If you were to be entirely honest with yourself it has everything to do with the KJV. Because it is based on that version alone you formed your conclusion. Our desire should be to understand what God reveled to man (us) and in this case understanding what was written in the original Hebrew is the best way to achieve that. The KJV translators added notes so we the readers could better understand what the true meaning of the Hebrew is. They did this precisely so we would not draw the wrong conclusions.

    For you on the one hand to say you don't care what the translators notes are, yet form your original opinion exclusively from those very same translators words minus those explanations is contradictory.
     
  12. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    Actually, if you want to understand what the translators actually said, you do need them. Otherwise you are wetting yourself up as the authority of God's word... and unless you are a major scholar of the ancient languages and hold doctorates in all the various biblical studies you are woefully unqualified.

    yes, the Holy Spirit does lead and guide... but if you are acting on wrong information (your perceived "interpretation" and not what the text actually says albeit the text is four centuries removed from your modern day understanding) the Holy Spirit's leading will be misunderstood and you will end up worse than when you started. God uses His word, but if you do not understand His word because you either do not have the translators' notes or you choose to shun them you will not be in the position to comprehend everything that His word has to say and will instead overlay your own conclusions of what it means.

    I have been down that road and it is not a pleasant trip. I discovered that I do not know it all, that I am not even close to knowing it all, and that there is no way I will ever know it all. The translations I use all contain the translators' notes in either the margin, center column, or as footnotes. I make it a point to check these notes as I read so I will not only know what is actually there and so I will better understand it.
     
  13. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    I have come to a conclusion, about Psalms 12:

    The point of this passage(verse 1-8), is the Lord is comparing the words of man(V.2,3), with His Words.......
    Psalms 12:6
    “The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.”

    This passage describes the struggle that is going on, right here on the BB.
    --------------------------------------------------
    The struggle between man’s words(wisdom), and God’s Words(wisdom).

    Man’s words are weak and will come to an end(V.4), but God’s Words are powerful and will endure forever(V.7).

    Therefore it isn’t hard to understand why some people would want to postulate that this passage doesn’t say what it says.
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    So you think the KJV translators, who point the alternative translation in the marginal notes, based their views on man's wisdom?
     
  15. God's_Servant

    God's_Servant New Member

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    You need to forget about the English, God didn't write the OT in English. God chose to write this in Hebrew, so we must look at what is says in Hebrew. If it says something different in the original languages than in ours, we must accept that. Hebrew is what God chose, we must embrace it.

    (On a side note, I wish someone would print a modern KJV (1769) with the original notes, that would clear a lot of this up)
     
  16. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff New Member

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    You have the autographs!?! Cool, can we see them?
     
  17. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    The subjectivism of this day and time is alive and well. We have no right to invent a meaning not in Scripture based on some warm fuzzy.

    Let God's Word be true and human sophistry be found for the lie it is.
     
  18. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Preach it...
     
  19. AntennaFarmer

    AntennaFarmer Member

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    You make it sound like a conspiracy. The notes weren't "removed". They were only omitted from many of the copies.

    When the (1611) note says Heb. or Gk. they are usually giving the literal meaning rather than an alternate translation. You can't go about willy-nilly substituting the marginal words for the text as the literal meaning often does not convey the correct information to the English speaking reader. The literal, when considered in the correct context, gives the complete translation that is in the text.

    Notes that offer alternative translations take the form Or,...

    A.F.
     
  20. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    Playing the role of the martyr now?

    God's word is pure, but your application of that passage to your fave translation is nothing but man-made folly, mate. I just wish you would pull your head out of Ruckman's (et al) fantasies long enough to see what's what.

    God's word will endure forever. Long after every English translation has perished His word will continue on, even beyond the end of this mortal world. once God has wiped this existence away we will know Him and His word... and His word won't be in Jacobean English. Instead of this present facade of knowledge we now have we will be made perfect just as Christ is perfect and will have no need for any translation... or man-made doctrines about any specific one of them.
     
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