Featured Should I tithe?

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:​

I don't find anything about this so called "ceremonial law" that you are talking about in the scripture, the law is the law all 613 commandments.​

You can't pick and choose, you keep them all or you are under a curse.
The sabbath (seventh day), what you eat, what you wear and every aspect of your life.​

The only alternative is to walk in the Spirit.​

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.​

I am leaving off this conversation for now.​

HankD

 

No its not.

There are 613 commands but there is no reason whatsoever to think that they are all the same, carrying the same weight and of the same type.

There are civil laws that had only to do with Israel in their land- laws like "Do not take eggs from a wild bird's nest." That is simply not the same type of law as "Thou shalt not kill."

It is a gross oversimplification to say that they are all the same and have all passed away.

It is patently obvious that there are moral laws, ceremonial laws (like sacrificing lambs for heaven's sake) and civil laws.

Conflating them and demanding that they are all the same and all have passed away is silly.

And you have yet to answer my question.

What does "walking in the Spirit" mean to you? Feeling your way through life? Having feelings in your "heart" and claiming that those are the Spirit of God?

And was David wrong to say that we ought to love the law of God and meditate upon it day and night. If so, you OBLITERATE better than HALF... HALF.... HALF of the BIBLE!!!!

Yes, and Paul specified what kind of law he was talking about. Ceremonial law. He literally NAMED the kinds of laws that they should not pursue and they all had to do with ceremonial procedures and holy days.

 

I did answer you Luke2427 The witness of the Holy Spirit within me.

This thread is taking an ad hominem turn and I have have no heart for that especially with you in particular.

I believe you have misunderstood what I am saying (and perhaps vice versa).

The Spirit of God has never led me into sin.
When I resurrect my flesh and begin to follow after it then I would agree, I need the law and the thunder from Mt Sinai again.

If you love His law as you say then that means the Spirit of God is in you.

So do I but its not by compulsion rather because of the love of the Father which was infused in me when I was regenerated and the witness of the Spirit led me to forsake my former manner of life and not because of the law.

Also, I have a couple of long days of work ahead of me so I won't be logging in for a while.

HankD

 

Interestingly, you have YET to answer my PRIMARY question to you.

HOW... HOW... HOW... got it yet? HOW does the Holy Spirit lead you?

Is it through some feeling you think is the Holy Spirit?

HOW does the HS lead you?

There is a VERY good reason you are avoiding that question like the plague. I think anybody who reads this sees that obvious reason quite clearly.

 

Luke,

Are you claiming that there is some "law" (ceremonial or otherwise) that the believers are to live by?

Folks,

David loved the law, and lived by it - well somewhat.

But the law was only a reflection of what was his heart - the Scriptures say he was a man after God's own heart.

Holy Spirit filled believers are in that same condition. They don't follow the law out of obligation, but out of the principle of Love of God.

The principle of giving is the same way.

To a new believer that needs some tangible guide, the "tithe" is a good start, as long as it remains a guide, and not a considered a law or some measure of believer righteousness in the sense of "I'm right with God" thinking.

To the believer's who have walked with God, and (as Paul would say) would "know Him" (experiential and intellectual), the tithe is just the minimum, and they long for the fellowship of God as Adam experienced before the Fall.

This is a wonderful statement Luke:

Paul had to die daily because there still WAS part of him that LONGED for sin.

There is a part of you that has the same longing. And EVERYONE else on earth too.
​

 

Absolutely.

And you do to. All real Christians believe there are laws we live by. We all believe we ought love the Lord our God with all our hearts, souls and might. We all beleive we ought to love our neighbors as ourselves.

Some Christians have this weird belief that the moral law of God does not apply to us but it does. But NONE of us think there is NO law that we should live by.

OF COURSE you should follow it because you love it and you love the God who gave it!

Do we really have to SAY that????

Is it really necessary on this forum to say something that elementary??

But you still should follow it.

And the problem is that not ALL of you does love the law. There is a part of you- the flesh- that HATES it.

So you need it to remind that part of you who is boss- the One who makes the laws- the LORD.

There is NOTHING in the entire BIBLE that even remotely indicates that obeying the moral law of God is for baby Christians and adult Christians don't have to.

Mature Christians still have a sin nature and they still need the law of God.
Furthermore the law of God is an expression of the character of God and so we mature Christians love it. In fact the more mature you become as a Christian, the more you love the law of the Lord.

 

Often when I post, I write with the view that more folks will read the posts than who I am responding, too. As a result, often I put ideas and such into limited terminology.

Yes, and that is truly a sad mode of thinking!

Such thinking results in limited freedom, and high negative attributes for the body and spirit - not to account for the mockery of testimony.

Truly sad is such a person who will one day stand before Christ in shame.

I'd encourage you to make a change of wording that will perhaps help the believers understand what I perceive is your points.

I prefer the use of the word "principles."

It is a better word for the NT believer, because it goes beyond the mere moral code of the OT.

For instance, Christ's statements He made such as, "You have heard it said... (Matt 5) and "look upon to lust after..." go beyond the written moral law in the OT.

You and I, are well experienced and learned, we can recall that when we were young (even babes) in Christ, the principles were sometimes considered rigid unbroken rules; as we matured, we found that the principles were not sign posts to show achievement, but guides to daily constrain and channel the testimony - using Paul's word - conversation.

You will recall that younger children tend to see things as either/or. Their parameters of choice limited because of both knowledge and experience; however, when becoming adults, have the insight and maturity to both understand and experience the "why" or "how" or a great number of other elements that go into the principles of which Christ preached.

Agreed, for when Christ presented his statements (again see the example of Matt 5), he was presenting the principles to both believers and unbelievers.

Above is another example of what we are both agreed.

The difference is that of wording - you use "law" but I am using "principle."

For instance, the very first commandment: “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."

By using "law" we would have to reword the verse - for few of the US believers came from Egypt, and none from the "house of slavery."

By using "principle" we understand that verse is totally applicable to all people - both believer and non-believer. Just as Christ in Matt 5 spoke the principles to both groups.

I do sense that I need to make this one area of distinction as an example of how the OT laws of commerce can become moral principles.

The tithe is not part of the "moral" law as far as the "tenth" but part of the law of commerce.

It is important that all believer's understand and practice giving, for it is an integral part of the believer, and never to be neglected.

Therefore, the believer's giving goes far beyond the tithe, and that extends the "commerce law" into the "moral principle" for the believer.

Such extensions (moving from laws of commerce to moral principles) are not limited to tithe, it also goes to treatment of the needy, the care of the sickly, and other elements in which the believer gives often more than mere money.

Folks, when reviewing the OT, always look for how the "law" can be lived out as a principle, and when you preach, preach principles to live by.

 

Law is the Bible word. God knows best.

Law is the best word.

And we ought to leap and shout and sing with David- OH HOW I LOVE THY LAW!!!

 

I can't explain it.
How does one explain color to a blind person?

I don't mean you, presumably you are led of the Holy Spirit as well.

HankD

 

Just simply tell me if it is "feelings based" or not.

 

No.

My feelings can be affected but its not feelings based.

It's communications based upon having ears to hear His voice.

HankD

 

"Hear his voice" is figurative language that is totally unhelpful in telling us what that means.

It would be like me asking you what it means to "get high" and you answer with "It means to get wasted."

You are just providing more figurative language.

Let me just stop this because what you really mean by being led by the Spirit is that you feel things in your heart and you think words in your head and you attribute that to the Holy Spirit.

The Bible no where confirms that this is at all how the Holy Spirit leads us.

Jesus said "He will bring to your remembrance the things I have taught you."

He will convict the world of sin- through the Word of God which he authored.

The leading of the Holy Spirit is the imparting of truth, usually through the Bible he authored.

It is not a feeling and it is not words that pop into your head.

 

Difficult to believe but can it be possible that all the "learned" people on this forum are unable to provide an answer to the above question?

Some have used mention of the tithe prior to the Law as a basis for requirement that Christians tithe. Surely you should be able to provide an answer for all to see.

 

From Abraham, the priest of the Most High God, Melchizedek received it. He was the "type" for Christ, the prophet, priest and King.

From Jacob, God was to receive. There is no record that he did, but there is also no record that he didn't. Jacob made a brash, irresponsible pledge to God that put requirements on God to receive the tithe. Nonetheless, God delivered on the promise Jacob asked of him. We have no knowledge one way or another if Jacob therefore followed through with the tithe.

The interesting aspect of this story is the gifts that Jacob offered Esau upon his return to his homeland. Esau refused them. We never see them being accepted. We never see Jacob receiving them back. We do know that, after the face-to-face meeting with God at the River Jabbok, Jacob knew God and believed/feared him. Would he go back on his promise then, knowing for certain who God was? Again, we don't know.

As I said elsewhere, it is accurate to say that the tithe is not commanded in the New Testament. It also is not withdrawn as a command, is it? If so, tell me where?

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=89695&posted=1#post2045652

 

The fact that there is "no record" of anyone else giving a tithe is an argument from silence.

Melchisidek.

 

I never said it was a feeling. You are "popping" words in my mouth (via the keyboard) which I never said.

Figurative or not it's biblical language which Jesus uses and expects His own to understand.

Like these which are very helpful for all of us.

Matthew 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.​

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.​

John 10:25

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.​

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.​

Of course and obviously hearing His voice means believing and accepting by faith what He says in the scripture through the enlightenment of the Spirit of God without which we cannot hear His voice.​

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.​

HankD

 

Yes, his actual words, first spoken then written down for us to read.

God's people hear those words and follow them.

To follow extrabiblical "voices" of God is dangerous and unsupportable in Scripture.

 

And where the Bible is silent it is appropriate that true believers also be silent!

Not Melchisedec but OldRegular!

 

No. The Bible is not silent on tithing. Tithing predated the law. Tithing is championed in the law. Tithing is repeated by the Lord Jesus Christ.

picking a few people who the Bible does not SAY tithed neither means that they DIDN'T tithe nor does it prove that we shouldn't tithe.

It is nothing but an argument from silence against that which the Bible is not silent about.