Featured Single Predestination

Hebrews 12 specifically states that justified men's spirits are made perfect.
This is not sinless perfectionism and we still have not been glorified with a glorified body.
Sinless perfectionism as I understand the teaching is you have to maintain your own perfect sinlessness or you have lost your salvation.
There will be no sin allowed into or in God's heaven, so then it is perfected all them that are there.
AND, we have come is our present reality. This here is not a future reality.

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Either scripture is true or God is a liar.

 

Scott, Hebrews 12:22-24 gives us an understanding of our corporate worship. It is not saying that we have reached spiritual perfection. The verses prior to this explain.

Hebrews 12:7-24 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears. For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

There is no need for discipline if we are sinless and perfect. There is no need for sanctification if we are sinless and perfect. All that would need to change is for us to shed our skin.
I don't think you are teaching a correct doctrine regarding our present state.

 

After being born again we appear perfect because we wear the righteousness of Christ. Particular doesn't understand after all she is a woman.
MB

 

God does the saving, but not because of any work of faith, immersion (Mark 16:16), confession (Romans 10:9-10 or prayer (Romans 10:13-14, ". . . For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? . . .").

Romans 1:16, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."

Romans 4:4-5, ". . . Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. . . ."

 

We are not sinlessly perfect, but your ignoring the flesh versus the spirit and saying it is all one and the same as a single person inseparable when it is not.
God separates them even if you can't see that.
Here we see the distinct parts that make up a whole person,
soul- spirit- joints, marrow (body)
When you die you don't go intact to heaven, your divided asunder and your spirit departs to be with God.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

Jesus' teaching about the need for the new birth, as found in Matthrew, Mark and Luke's accounts.

Matthew 18:3, ". . . And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. . . ."

Mark 10:15, ". . . Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. . . ."

Luke 18:17, ". . . Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein. . . ."

 

Faith is not a work for Salvation.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
You should look that verse over other wise this verse would be a lie. We both know that it isn't a lie a man does not work faith thats why it says "to him that worketh not but believes"
MB

 

Read my post again.
Let me simply state it this way. Faith is not ever counted as a work in order to be saved. There are promises of salvation citing a work of faith and faith. Mark 16:16; Romans 10:9; Romans 10:13-14. In none of those references citing a work, are those works ever presented as requirements in order to be saved.

 

@JonC how do you judge the above post. Fair or unfair?

MB, God sees Jesus, who is perfect. Jesus is our substitute before the Father. Apart from Christ we are wretched beings.
Second, in Hebrews 12:23, "the spirits of the righteous made perfect" is a reference to the dead in Christ who worship around the throne. It does not refer to us who are alive on this earth.

 

I like single Predestination to salvation with a chance for the non-elect to change their mind and choose salvation as a personal choice (and I would vote for it if God gave me a vote). I just don’t think that Scripture supports that.

What does “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44) mean if some are drawn and the rest have the freedom to come or not to come?

What does “you do not believe because you are not of My sheep” (John 10:26) and “My Father, who has given [My sheep] to Me” (John 10:29) mean if some are drawn and the rest have the freedom to come or not to come?

The very act of God drawing SOME and giving SOME, creates a second group ... those not drawn and not given. Scripture is done harm by trying to fit “free will” choice into the group “not drawn/given” by robbing God of sovereignty and denying scripture.

So “Single Predestination” is a logical possibility, it is just a hard case to make from scripture.

 

Since it is by grace that you are saved by faith and this is not of yourselves it is the gift of God, then any salvation of a person is all done by God. Jesus also says those who come to the light , the works they do are done in God so not of themselves.
But these wicked, do not come to the light. They just do not do so because they do evil things and they hate the light, which would be Christ. We are back to the enmity of the carnally minded evil doers who can not be submitted to God's laws.
And these wicked evil doers are condemned already, like it is just not going to change for them by anything they can do, they are what they are, unless God changes their heart by giving them a new spirit. A man must be born again before he will believe in Christ, otherwise they do not have the love of God in them, as they are not of God. And Jesus said those who are not 'of God' do not hear God. I would say not only do they not hear as in hearken and obey, God is not even speaking to them.
Because faith comes by hearing ,and hearing by the word of God, so faith comes by hearing God speak, and they do not hear because they are not of God.

And God's work is that you believe in Christ, and God does not fail in what He does.

Whether God wants them to believe matters not, as they never will, even though God commands all men everywhere to repent and believe in Christ, they can not do so, because they do evil.

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

And I half expect my posts to suddenly go poof!, so I figure a few people will get to read what I just wrote.

 

I actually don't see the problem with double predestination. God is just, and is basing his redemptive decisions on his wisdom and foreknowledge. Thus, He must have chosen not to save some from eternity past.

 

I would say that God, from eternity past, chose to save unworthy ungodly believers, and not save unworthy ungodly non-believers.