Sinless in heaven?

Conclude what you want Bob. You have admitted to sin by admitting to not being sinless. Is not evident then, that you are not always led by the Spirit God?

That is an inidication that we are children of God; but it is not a promise that we will be led by the Spirit of God 100% of the time. That promise is not in the Bible.

Context Bob. What is Paul referring to? Go back a couple verses:

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

He tells these believers that they are not in the flesh. The flesh used here is used to denote the unsaved individual. There is a contrast in this passage between the unsaved (represented as the flesh), and the saved (represented as the spirit).
The flesh (unsaved) will die--be separated from God for all eternity.
The spirit[ual] (saved) will live and will be forever with the Lord.
However in our walk with the Lord we must "mortify" or put to death on a daily basis the sin nature that dwells within us. We still have it. God has not removed the curse that was passed on from Adam. Paul said "I die daily" Jesus said: "Let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me." If you take up your cross you will die. The cross is an instrument of death, crucifixion. Paul said I die daily. Every day he put his desires, his wants to death. Instead he yielded to the Lord's desires.

No, I just believe what it says and have 20/20 vision--looking twenty verses ahead and twenty verses behind. Make sure you know the context.

 

When you are using that 20/20 and looking behind, please look who Paul was talking to in Romans 8:

I went back a few verses, and guess what I found.....................

Romans 1:
7: To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:
12: Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13: For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Context DHK; Context:

BBob,

 

ok Bob,
You have strung so many verses together that now you have lost even me in this conversation.
Let's recap:
The thread is called: "Sinless in Heaven?"
Most of your initial posts dealt with the resurrection body.
The Bible says we wait for the redemption of our bodies.
The body has nothing to do with our salvation.
2Thes.5:23 indicates that we are made of body, soul, and spirit.
The Bible indicates, that like the angels, we are spirit beings. It is our spirit that is saved. It is our spirit that was dead or separated from God. It is our spirit that communicates with God. God has given man a spirit which differentiates him from the animal kingdom. They have souls, but not spirits.

Most of the time the flesh in the Bible speaks of the flesh nature or the sin nature.
The body, in and of itself, is nothing but a composite of chemicals put together in an orderly fashion by God. Without the spirit and soul it has no life and will return to dust. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." The body has no sin for the same reason a rock has no sin. It is made up of chemicals. It is simply a material component, a tent (2Cor.5:1-5) that is here for a temporary period of time while the soul and spirit reside in it. The flesh (as in the body) does not and cannot sin, but the flesh nature does. Therein is your confusion.

There are synonyms in the Bible: heart, mind, soul, all mean the same thing, and are used interchangeably. The only reason the flesh of a man sins: that is his hands kill another, is because his heart (soul or mind) tell him to. The sin comes from the heart (soul or mind). It is not the body that sins. It is the heart.

Thus the explanation of Jesus:
Matthew 5:21-22 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Murder originates from the heart. Anger here is equated with murder.

We are spirit beings. The body is somewhat irrelevant. It will change at the resurrection and be fashioned more like the body of Jesus. It is not the body that makes one sin. It is our carnal nature. We are under the curse of Adamic. One day that Adamic curse will be removed. And there will be no more sin. As long as we live in this sinful world with a sin nature there will be sin.
Paul said: It is no more I that sins, but sin that dwells in me. The sin nature dwelt in Paul. Someday that sin nature would no more dwell in Paul (as it does not now, even though he has not receieved his resurrection body.) He is in heaven without a body at all. But he is sinless, isn't he? He is able to see, think, learn, etc. and all without a body. We are spirit beings. Our body is simply a tent that covers our spirits.

 

You make something so simple, "so complicated".

Rom 6:7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

This scripture is speaking of we who are dead to sin, so therefore inwardly, we are free from sin.
The same is also true for the body. When the body is dead, there is no sin, for it knoweth nothing and therefore cannot sin.

Very simple:
The inward part is freed from sin, by accepting Jesus and dying dead to sin.

The outward part is freed from sin when it dies, for it is returning to dust and knoweth nothing, therefore cannot sin.

The inward part is that which is born of God and therefore cannot sin. Any sin committed is outwardly being led by the carnal mind, which is sin against God.

If the flesh plays no part, how can it walk, talk, jump, spit. Or how can it visit the sick, rejoice, praise God with the mouth. It is with the heart that man believeth, but with the mouth that confession is made.

For there to be a "Man", there has to be a soul, spirit and body. If you kill the body, there is no more sin period.

You seem to be saying the soul and spirit can sin, even if the body is already turned back to dust. You need to realize, that it takes all three parts for it to be a "man", which is capable of sin.


BBob,

 

You deceive yourself. You have already admitted on this board, publicly, that you DO sin. So it is a lie to say that you cannot sin. (All liars shall have their part in the lake of fire??) Admit it. You sin. You are not free from sin. The Scripture does not say that you are free from sin.

It says "He that is dead is freed from sin." But you are very much alive, and sometimes you are very much alive to sin.
Verse 11 says "Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin." The word "reckon" means that it takes work and effort for one to be dead unto sin. It is not an automatic thing for someone who is a Christian. You can easily choose to be alive to sin just as much as you choose to be dead to sin. You can choose to turn to a porn site on the internet or to e-sword and read the Bible. That choice is in your power, depending on whether or not you want to be alive to sin or dead to sin.
The commnad in verse 11 is to reckon yourself to be dead to sin. It is something you must do. It is not automatic.

You aren't dead to sin--all the time. You have already admitted that. You sin.

That mess of chemicals that you call a body is controlled by your mind, also referred to by the names heart and soul. If those hands commit murder it is because it was conceived in the heart. Chemicals are free from sin only in the sense that they are controlled by the mind that operates them. It is like blaming guns for murder. It is not the gun that murders the person. It is the person behind the gun. It is the mind behind the hand that pulls the trigger. It isn't the hands fault either. The mind (the heart) is to blame. Jesus said "Out of the heart comes evil things."

Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Jesus is speaking of the inward part here, in this verse--the heart.

These things come from the heart of man, the soul, the mind. They do not come from the flesh--those chemicals which make up the body. Most of the body is made up of water: H2O. How can two atoms of Hydrogen combined with one atom of oxygen sin? Explain that to me.

What does James say:

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
--The Bible defines physical death--when the spirit separates from the body, the body is dead. But the spirit never dies. While on earth the spirit, body and soul are one. At death, the body returns to dust, but the spirit lives on. In heaven the spirit still has life. It doesn't need the body to learn, think, sing, make decisions. The body is irrelevant to life. We are spirit beings. The body is temporary. It will die. The spirit will separate and live eternally.

 

BBob; And when this separation takes place, sin ceases.

Gal 4:14And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, [even] as Christ Jesus.

Rom 7:18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Here we find that inwardly Paul would do good, but outwardly (in the flesh) he does evil.

I did not make this up, Paul delivered it to us from God. Will you not accept the word of God?

BBob,

 

Herein is your confusion.
It doesn't make a difference. Sin is a transgression of God's law. It doesn't matter where--whether inwardly or outwardly; whether in the mind, soul, or in the flesh--it is still sin. Paul could sin inwardly. Paul could sin in the flesh. Both are possible.
It was Jesus himself that said "Out of the heart comes all these evil things." That is inwardly.
Sin is sin, no matter where it comes from.

 

Is there any part of you that is "born of God"??

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

BBob,

 

Bob, the verse applies to you also. Need I remind you that you have admitted to committing sin on this board. All sin is the same in God's sight. We are not Catholics--some venial and some mortal. Sin is sin--a transgression of God's law. Since you have sin, according to your own theology you are not born again.
Either you are not born again Bob, or the verse you have quoted is quoted out of its context and means something different than what you imply it to mean. Which is it?

 

No, I am trying to explain something to you. The two scripture in John do not conflict themselves.

1Jo 1:8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

This is the outward man, (the flesh) which is still waiting on its change, which it will receive in the resurrection.

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is the part that is "born again", cleansed up and made ready to go to heaven at death of the body. This is the inward man, and the part that doth not sin, but is perfect before God.

BBob,

 

That is a flawed interpretation Bob. It does not fit with the rest of Scripture. Sin is a transgression of the law. It is committed both inwardly (with the mind, heart, and soul), and outwardly with the flesh. You can't get away with sin that easily. Jesus said sin comes from the heart. Will you deny the words of Jesus? Sin comes from the inward man. That is where it originates. He that is born again does indeed sin. I don't contradict that Scripture in saying that; I just say that you don't understand it, or if you do you are not explaining it according to your knowledge.

 

You have stated on here more than once, that the heart is the "mind", which we have a carnal mind.

Question;
When you die, will a part of you go to heaven to rest until the resurrection??

BBob,

 

You cannot serve two masters. Your mind (heart, soul) must serve either Christ or the flesh. If we are born again it is our spirit that is born again. The mind or soul is the seat of our affections, our intellect. But I believe that in some inexplicable way the soul becomes joined with the spirit.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The Word of God can divide asunder the soul and spirit, indicating that somehow they are joined together, first.

The spirit is that part of man that allows man to communicate with God. It is the spiritual part of man.
The carnal mind is only carnal when it gives into the flesh or carnal things. When saved it may give into sin or carnal things, according to our ever present sin nature. But our sins are still atoned for. We don't lose our salvation. The mind is still the mind. Let this mind be in you which is also in Christ Jesus. It is the same mind--the same "carnal" mind. Only this time it is yielded to Christ and not the flesh. Either way we must make a choice--yield ourself to the flesh or to Christ.

Paul said:
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Every day he made his mind say no to the flesh and submitted himself to Christ. He counted himself as dead to the flesh.

 

You skipped by the question DHK; Is there a part of you going to heaven when you die a natural death, and if so, what is going to heaven. If the soul is not going to heaven at death of the body, where does it go? Are you saying now that the mind is the soul also?

1Pe 2:11 ¶ Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

BBob,

 

The spirit goes to heaven. That we know for sure.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

BTW, I did answer your question, just not as bluntly as you wanted me to. The words soul and spirit are often interchanged with one another. I quoted to you Heb.4:12 and showed to you how in some inexplicable way that they were joined together and could be cut asunder by the Word of God.
Thus at death I believe both soul and spirit will go to heaven as one entity. The soul is "life."

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

He also has a spirit which God communes with man, and man with God. It is the spirit which needs to be born again.

 

Well, we are getting somewhere now DHK; I think we need to let this simmer a while, before proceeding..........

Mic 6:7Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, [or] with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn [for] my transgression, the fruit of my body [for] the sin of my soul?

Eze 18:4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Mat 8:22But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

BBob,