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Socialism Is Bad for the Environment

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by KenH, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    “As socialist ideas capture the American imagination — and are often portrayed, as with the Green New Deal, as necessary to avoid environmental catastrophe — it’s important to remember socialism’s dismal environmental legacy. Capitalism may be a dirty word these days, but when it comes to producing the prosperity and creativity necessary to sustain a clean environment, it’s still the best system we’ve got.”

    Socialism Is Bad for the Environment
     
  2. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Companies don't want to spend money for a clean environment. A look at what's happened for the last 50 years clearly demonstrates that. They will do the least under the law. If there aren't any government regulations, they will do nothing. Name one company which out of the goodness of their heart cleaned up the environment.

    The article you point to isn't about socialism. It's about communism. There is a big difference. I would agree that communism has failed miserably. Even Russia and China are adopting capitalist opportunities. Democratic socialism, on the other hand, has worked well in countries like the UK and Denmark to preserve a decent environment.
     
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  3. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Active Member

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    Democratic socialism doesn't work well. The UK and Denmark are not Democratic Socialist. Denmark is a free market economy. The UK is also not Democratic Socialist. It is a market economy. The government of the UK does not own the means of production. The United States, Australia, New Zealand, the UK are all very similar in that way and rely on a capitalist, not a socialist model.

    Venezuela is a Democratic Socialist Country. North Korea is a Democratic Socialist Country. The Nazis were Democratic Socialists.

    Liberals are always pointing to European countries as "Democratic Socialist" in nature like Sweden, Denmark and the other Nordic countries, but they are not Democratic Socialist, at all. Bernie Sanders is always pointing to those Nordic countries and is never challenged on it. But he doesn't know what he is talking about.

    Democratic Socialism is tyrannical/totalitarian and mostly in the third world. The line between Communism and Democratic Socialism is a very thin line. In fact, Karl Marx viewed socialism as a stepping stone to Communism. He didn't view socialism as the goal, but a means to achieving the goal, which in his eyes was Communism.

    What attracts liberals to Democratic socialism (besides their overall ignorance about what socialism is) is that word, "Democratic." They seem to think that it westernizes and sanitizes socialism for western consumption.

    Socialism impoverishes the masses. It makes them all equally poor. Just look at Venezuela and North Korea, both who are Democratic Socialist nations. The people at the top of the food chain are wealthy and fat. The average person in those countries lives in a hell hole. They have no money, hardly any food. Venezuelans are digging through sewers for food.

    Liberals need to take about six months and go live in a truly Democratic Socialist country and see what is really is like before heaping praise on a very totalitarian, evil form of government. This is why Liberals should not have their hands on the levers of power in this country. Liberalism would take us into a socialist hell hole like Venezuela.
     
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  4. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Both countries are free market societies with more socialistic aspects than we have.
     
  5. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    One of the fastest flip-flops I've ever seen.

    Regarding the UK and Denmark.

     
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  6. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Are you claiming that the UK is not a free market society? Ridiculous. Some elements of socialism like say SOCIAL Security can certainly exist in a free market economy.
     
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  7. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Active Member

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    Nope. You said they were Democratic socialist, and they are not that at all.

    If government doesn't control the means of production, they are not socialist. They free market economies, which is the polar opposite of socialism. They do not redistribute wealth. The socialism that Bernie Sanders is pushing taxes the stuffing out of the rich and gives that wealth to the poor. In Denmark as in other Nordic countries, they tax the poor. They squeeze the poor with really high taxes. Their income tax is 60% and their sales tax is close to 30%. Very similar to other countries like Sweden that tax and tax and tax and tax.

    If you look at what Democratic Socialism really looks like, it is easy to understand why people from those awful hell-hole countries risk life and limb to come to the US.

    Socialism is awful. What Liberals have in their heads is a version of Socialism that still has all of the benefits of capitalism, but where everyone is equally wealthy. That fictional model doesn't exist and could not exist in reality.

    Even that avowed snip Socialist Cortez was advocating for a $4500 raise for members of Congress and will be receiving royalties from a movie made about her and newest members of the House. And Bernie was touting making over a million dollars on his book. So Crazy Eyes Cortez and Bernie both take full advantabe of Capitalism, the very system they claim is immoral. They are commplete fakes.
     
    #7 GoodTidings, Jun 11, 2019 at 5:57 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2019 at 11:38 PM
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  8. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Active Member

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    62174623_118793756024708_213670955073929216_n.jpg
     
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  9. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Active Member

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    He is pointing out the fact that you claimed they were Democratic socialist and are now saying the opposite that they are free market economies. Total 180 degree flip-flop. It is clear that you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.
     
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  10. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    So what type of country are the UK and Denmark in your view? If free market why do so many conservatives call them socialist and refuse to implement healthcare systems like theirs?
     
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  11. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Active Member

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    They are free market economies. I already said that.
     
  12. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Good. Then there is no problem in your view to adopt the same kind of healthcare systems they have. Right? It's not socialist.
     
  13. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Active Member

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    No, not at all. I would not want their health care systems at all.
     
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  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    If the government is in charge of it then it is socialist. This country was founded on limited government. We should apply government only when absolutely necessary. Lefties want to use government to get their way every time.
     
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  15. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    The consensus on this thread is that the UK is not a socialist country.
     
  16. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    But it's not socialist, right?`Can you see how utterly stupid this kind of questioning is?
     
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  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    It's not a socialist country. Private enterprises by and large own the industries in the UK. They do have a single-payer government run health care system.
     
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  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    A little. But your insistence that because someone (correctly) states that the UK has a market system they should be willing to accept their single-payer health care system, is, well, stupid.
     
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  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Oh well that means proof beyond questioning! Limited government!!!!
     
  20. 777

    777 Well-Known Member
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    Well, I could argue that the US is more socialist than any of these countries mentioned here, just depends on the metric you use for the definition of "socialism".

    Of course, pure socialism is bad for the environment, there is no personal property allowed under that system, The government owns everything and they have no vested interest not to pollute - everybody's problem turns out to be nobody's problem.

    Back to socialized medicine. . ."democratic socialism" is a simply awful concept. Fifty one percent of the population can just steamroll over the rest. In a country like this one, forty seven percent of the population pay no income taxes. Nada. But, in Sweden, they pay some tax over 2k a year:

    Taxation in Sweden - Wikipedia

    sorry for the wiki link, but in the UK, they start paying 20% at around 15k/yr. Then there's also the dreaded VAT tax, municipal taxes, fuel taxes, on and on that pay for universal health care. It's unsustainable here, too many users, not enough paying in.
     
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