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Sola Scriptura and OSAS...again

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Darrell C, Jan 21, 2018.

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  1. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Again, already addressed, beginning here...


    And my response was so detailed it will not fit in one post with the additional commentary, Bob, so...


    Continued...
     
    #121 Darrell C, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Every proof text and point you offered was addressed, got anything new we can use as an example of error?

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  3. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    As always, it is my pleasure my friend.


    God bless.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The doctrines of both the Sda and Rome are NOT of the scriptures, as they both hold to extra biblical revelation, and both teach another and false Gospel!
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God permits/allows Him to try us and tempt us, in order to refine and purify our walk in and with Christ!
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    What doctrines that I have listed regarding the SDa do you deny are true than?
     
  7. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    This thread is not about SDA or Catholicism. Please start a thread if you would like to discuss them.

    Only two pages left so lets stick with the focus of the OP.

    So, in 25 words or less (just kidding, lol, it can be as long as you want), please tell the class why you think once someone is saved they are always saved. And I would like to see a Scriptural Basis for your statement. You can go to Biblegateway and copy and paste a text from there.


    God bless.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus stated to us that he will raise and glorify ALL that the Father gave to Him to be saved, none ever lost, He is the Great High Priest, and per Jude, He can and does save forevermore! Also, paul stated to us that the Holy Spirit seals us against that day of final glorification, and NONE can break that seal, for none can undo the power and work of God!
     
  9. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Excellent. Now, if you had only placed the supporting Scripture in with each statement it would have been...awesome!

    For example:



    Jesus stated to us that he will raise and glorify ALL that the Father gave to Him to be saved, none ever lost,


    John 6:39
    King James Version (KJV)

    39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.



    He is the Great High Priest, and per Jude, He can and does save forevermore!


    Jude 22-25
    King James Version (KJV)

    22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

    23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

    24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

    25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.



    Also, paul stated to us that the Holy Spirit seals us against that day of final glorification,



    2 Corinthians 5:1-5
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

    2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

    3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

    4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

    5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.



    and NONE can break that seal, for none can undo the power and work of God!



    Hebrews 12:2
    King James Version (KJV)

    2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.




    Great post, Yeshua1.


    God bless.
     
  10. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
    James 5:19‭-‬20 NIV

    This one verse says it all. "Brothers and sisters" obviously refers to Christians who are "brothers and sisters" in Christ. Meaning those who are "saved". Yet in spite of being saved, they can still "wander from the truth". More so, those saved "brothers and sisters" in christ who "wander from the truth" would risk facing "death". Is this a spiritual death or physical death? If it is a physical death, why then is it immediately followed with discussion of sin? If it is a spiritual death, why else would James provide such warning to saved "Brothers and sisters" if they have no risk of spiritual death?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    John answered that for us, as he stated that there is a sin that leads to physical death, and He asks us not to pray to God to have that averted! Think that God always reserves the right to call home one of Hos own at any time, even for dire chaistisement!
     
  12. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Could you please provide the scripture reference? Thank you.
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    OSAS does not survive the Bible details
    in Matthew 18 where we see "forgiveness revoked"
    does not survive the Bible details in Romans 11 where we see 'salvation revoked"
    Does not survive the Bible details in John 15 where those 'in Christ" are cut off and burned up.
    Does not survive the Bible details in Ezek 18 where we see forgiveness revoked.
    Does not surive the Bible details in Ephesians 6 where we see salvation revoked

    Does not survive Paul's statement in 1 Cor 9 - "LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it"

    Does not survive Romans 2:13

    Does not survive Romans 2:4-9

    Does not survive the details of Gal 4 "I fear I have labored over you in vain"

    These are not just "so many Bible texts to be ignored"

    Not sure how that is supposed to be a compelling argument
     
  14. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    The context of James deals largely with Jewish brethren in the temporal. For example, the "works" which James speaks of in regards to Abraham is in no way teaching them how to be saved, or how to "keep their salvation," but simply deals with the fact that Abraham was justified (concerning his flesh, that is, in the body, regarding the temporal) before men, not that he was eternally redeemed through his works (faith, obedience, belief).

    So we have several applications of James' statement here.

    1. First keep in mind this is written to Jews:


    James 1
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

    2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;



    All Writers of the Bible do the same thing any preacher worth his salt does, he addresses both saved and unsaved in those who hear him preach. So first, we remove the reasoning...


    ...which, incidentally, is what the L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teachers) are guilty of in most of their proof-texts...they incorrectly apply statements concerning those who are not Christians to Christians. It is true that the Epistle was written to and circulated among Christians, but, that does not mean we ignore the warnings for those among them whose salvation could be questioned. That is why James makes the point "Can one be a Christian and not evidence that in his works?"

    2. You are correct to ask...

    The answer is it is equally true that if a Christian falls into sin they can lose their physical lives, as seen in the examples of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5), and those who partake of Communion unworthily (1 Corinthians 11, which, by the way applies to both believers and unbelievers who partake unworthily), as it is also true of unbelievers who can lose their physical lives due to sin. Sometimes God gets fed up and exacts the penalty for sin.

    However, because we have so many texts that teach that salvation is eternal and cannot be lost, we know that for the Christian only physical death can be a result for sin.

    3. We can easily see that eternal judgment is in view for the unbeliever among them, because the terminology is distinct to one in need of being converted (sinner, v.20) and in danger of eternal judgment:


    James 5:19-20

    King James Version (KJV)

    19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

    20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.



    So you see you make the same mistake we usually see in the L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teachings)...you overlook the fact that a sinner in need of conversion is in view.

    In v. 19 we can apply this to those who are both saved and unsaved, because Christians can fall in error and be in need of being "turned around."

    But, in v.20, the only relevance to the Christian is the exhortation to convert the sinner.

    Understand?


    We have to properly identify who is being spoken of, and you are not doing that.


    This is true, and for the Christian, if they remain unrepentant, there is the possibility for the wages of sin being exacted concerning their physical lives.

    Death has always been the penalty for sin, and that still applies, in the temporal...to the Christian as well.


    Friend, if you are going to speak of the Lord Jesus Christ, at least capitalize His Name.

    You are trespassing in syllogism, and your conclusions show that.


    Major Premise: Brethren are mentioned;

    Minor Premise: judgment is spoken of that has a context of eternal judgment;

    Conclusion: Brethren can suffer eternal judgment.

    Despite the fact that so many passages teach that salvation is eternal, and guaranteed by the indwelling of God.


    Both.


    If I said...

    Brothers and sisters in Christ (those of you I speak to who are truly converted), if any of you do err from the truth, and one restore him to the truth;

    ...tell that person that he which turns around the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

    ...why would you impose only one application to the statement?

    The person who errs from the truth can be saved or unsaved, both are in danger of death. For the believer, it is physical death. For the unbeliever, it is spiritual death.

    And I will point out something else that contributes to the many errors of the L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teachers), and that is to make the term "soul" refer to the immaterial aspect of man's existence.

    It isn't, it is a reference to the "person" in view.

    Here are a few examples where this mistake cannot be made:


    Acts 7:14
    King James Version (KJV)

    14 Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls.


    Acts 27:37
    King James Version (KJV)

    37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.



    And I have a thread on that which just started, The Immortal Soul? Be glad to have you join it.


    He doesn't, lol, he simply states to the brethren (who are Jews), who are saved...what they should do if one among them (Jews) is a sinner in need of conversion. We can give application of that to the believer who errs from truth as well, but you have to impose loss of salvation into the text.


    God bless.
     
  15. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    1 John 5:16-17
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.



    I would agree with Yeshua1 in that this refers to physical death. We simply cannot impose spiritual death, because this would contradict Christ's teachings:


    John 6:48-50
    King James Version (KJV)

    48 I am that bread of life.

    49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

    50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.



    This promise is in a very familiar statement:


    John 3:16
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



    Now, I would ask you a question: what does this verse...


    Hebrews 10:14
    King James Version (KJV)

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



    ...mean?


    God bless.
     
  16. Theodore A. Jones

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    "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 NIV What is that law Paul is referencing?
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, it survives very well indeed, as the same God who saved us is also the One that keeps us saved, as we do not keep ourselves!
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    1 John 5:16
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    A good example of a text that does not say "God always reserves the right to call home one of Hos own at any time, even for dire chaistisement!"
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    OSAS does not survive the Bible details

    in Matthew 18 where we see "forgiveness revoked"
    does not survive the Bible details in Romans 11 where we see 'salvation revoked"

    Does not survive the Bible details in John 15 where those 'in Christ" are cut off and burned up.
    Does not survive the Bible details in Ezek 18 where we see forgiveness revoked.
    Does not surive the Bible details in Ephesians 6 where we see salvation revoked

    Does not survive Paul's statement in 1 Cor 9 - "LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it"

    Does not survive Romans 2:13
    Does not survive Romans 2:4-9

    Does not survive the details of Gal 4 "I fear I have labored over you in vain"

    These are not just "so many Bible texts to be ignored"


    Too much Bible being ignored in that assertion
     
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