1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Son Of Man

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by RipponRedeaux, Dec 31, 2023.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 2
  1. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    302
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not think that rendering is necessary when actually referring to a human being or people in general.

    For instance, the ESV has the following wording in Isaiah 56:2 a :
    "Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who holds it fast...."

    Many translation use the same kind of wording as the ESV such as WEB, CSB, lSV, NASB and NKJV. The LEB has the awkward the son of humankind who keeps hold of it

    I prefer the NIV rendering of the person who holds it fast.

    Other versions such as the EHV, NLT, ISV, NABRE, NCB, NET and CEB agree with the NIV here.

    But the WEB, CSB, LSB, ESV (as I've said earlier), NKJV and NKJV agree with son of man in that verse.
     
    #1 RipponRedeaux, Dec 31, 2023
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,109
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    . . . son of Adam . . .
     
    #2 37818, Jan 1, 2024
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,510
    Likes Received:
    3,569
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I like "son of man", but just as a preference. The passage is repeating the same thing (the man who does it, the son of man...keeping the sabbath from polluting it, keeping his hand from doing any evil).

    But my preference is based on a literary choice, not simply communicating the thought.

    If simply keeping the thought the repetitive nature could be just left out ("blessed is the person who does it"). So the question, IMHO, is whether a translation should also try to keep the literary structure intact.
     
    #3 JonC, Jan 1, 2024
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,109
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Literal.Standard Version, ". . .
    • Unlike most translations, justified typographic alignment consistent with the style of the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek biblical autographs. The ancient caesura mark is used for easy readability of poetic literature such as the Psalms. . . .
    "|| . . . ||"
     
    #4 37818, Jan 1, 2024
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,510
    Likes Received:
    3,569
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is one of the strengths of the NKJV. I typically use the NASB but like that the NKJV tried to maintain the poetic aspect. And Hebrew poetry lends itself to translation, which is another plus.
     
    #5 JonC, Jan 1, 2024
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    143
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don’t know what you mean.

    The Lord Jesus is not a son of Adam.
     
    #6 MrW, Jan 1, 2024
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,510
    Likes Received:
    3,569
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Actually, He is.....that is a major point in Scripture (and the main term Jesus chose for Himself). If Jesus were not a Son of Adam then it would be impossible that the sons of Adam be saved.
     
    #7 JonC, Jan 1, 2024
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,109
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus' genealogy through His mother as reported by Luke 3:38, ". . . which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."
     
    #8 37818, Jan 1, 2024
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,109
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    וּבֶן־אָדָ֖ם
     
    #9 37818, Jan 1, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2024
  10. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2023
    Messages:
    1,079
    Likes Received:
    100
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Translated: "And ben- od֖m."???
     
    #10 taisto, Jan 1, 2024
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,109
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    וּבֶן־אָדָ֖ם
    u·ven 'a·Dam
    this And the son of Adam
     
    #11 37818, Jan 1, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2024
  12. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    143
    Faith:
    Baptist
    All in Adam are sinners and dead.

    If Christ came through Adam, He would have been a sinner, born a sinner.

    That’s why it was mandatory that He be born of a virgin. The Seed of the woman overcame the devil.

    All in Christ are saints and alive forevermore.
     
    #12 MrW, Jan 1, 2024
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,109
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    False. He was always God.

    John 1:1, ". . . and the Word was God."

    John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, . . ."

    John 5:18, "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."

    Luke 18:19, ". . . And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."

    And there is more to this truth.

    Hebrews 4:15, "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

    And more.

    And as the LORD God said to Father per Genesis 3:22, ". . . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: . . ."

    What caused mankind to be sinful was always God's knowledge.
     
    #13 37818, Jan 1, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2024
  14. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    143
    Faith:
    Baptist
    #14 MrW, Jan 1, 2024
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,510
    Likes Received:
    3,569
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Star Wars Jedi?
     
    #15 JonC, Jan 1, 2024
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,510
    Likes Received:
    3,569
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He was born in the form of sinful flesh. That's, again, a major point of Scripture. He who knew no sin was made sin for us. It does not mean He sinned, but He came in the form of sinful flesh. He was the Son of Adam. This is the only way children of Adam, also in the form of sinful flesh....but who sinned....could be saved.
     
    #16 JonC, Jan 1, 2024
    • Like Like x 1
  17. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    143
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, no, NO! If Adam was His ultimate earthly father, He would have been born a sinner! Why do you think His mother had to be virgin? Do you guys not study Romans? Do you not understand what it meant to be the Seed of the woman (Eve) and NOT the Seed of the man (Adam)?
     
    #17 MrW, Jan 1, 2024
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,510
    Likes Received:
    3,569
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Actually, the verse I provided about Jesus being made in the form of sinful flesh was a passage from Romans, and Mary was of the seed of Adam.

    Many Christians believe that Scripture speaking of "seed of the woman" refers to Christ's virgin birth. It may.

    The problem is that Jesus is not the only person the Bible speaks of as being of the seed of a woman (as I am sure you probably know).

    Also, Jesus is called the seed of David as well.

    In the Hebrew religion "seed of the woman" is taken to speak of humanity in general (just like sons of man).
     
    #18 JonC, Jan 1, 2024
    • Like Like x 2
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,109
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Acts of the Apostles 13:33, ". . . God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. . . ."

    Colossians 1:18, ". . . And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. . . ."

    Hebrews 1:5-6, ". . . For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. . . ."

    Revelation 1:5, ". . . And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, . . ."

    Do not confuse His incarnate bodily resurrection with His bodily incarnation through His virgin birth.
     
    #19 37818, Jan 1, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2024
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,018
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    Brother Glen:)
     
    #20 tyndale1946, Jan 2, 2024
    • Winner Winner x 1
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2
Loading...