Sovereignity of God part deux!!

No problem sir

I quoted Romans 5:12-17 where Paul reveals Adam as a type of Christ in the sense that he brought sin and death to all. People are born with an inclination to sin- the sin nature. They got that because by one sin God had punished all of mankind and creation.

As for babies, that would be a rabbit trail IMO, and you assumed my position. Yes they are born "in Adam" therefore they are of the curse of mankind. God nowhere gives us clear teaching on how He deals with them. If anything Christ's blood was shed for all babies and all are elect by the will of God. Since the Bible really doesn't go there, I think it is best to leave that aside letting God judge whats right in those cases as with young children.

Romans 7- Everyone is bound to sin. The Law apart from Christ only leads to death and through the Law sin gets worse, why? 7:14- we are sold into the bondage of sin. The Law by itself makes sin within us incredibly worse (7:5 sinful passions aroused by the Law) not because of the good Law but because of our sinful nature in Adam.

Your statement that Paul was alive without the Law would prove to be false if you think a little further. Were the Gentiles who did not have the Law of God guilty of sin in Romans 2? My point is that I believe that Paul is simply saying that the Law only leads to death for us, though it is good. Remember the reason Paul died through the Law was because his internal sin took the good Law and deceived him (7:8-11).

That sounds good and all, but Biblically it doesn't line up very nicely. I do understand the general thinking of your view.

Romans 1, 2, and 3 purpose: All (Jews and Gentiles) are guilty of sin by nature or by the Law- None do good no not a single one, no one understands or seeks God. Through the Law comes the knowledge of internal sin- 3:10-20

Romans 4- justification by faith in Christ
Romans 5- YOUR KEY to understanding how everyone has a sin nature. It is because "In Adam death and condemnation came to all mankind" I already quoted 5:14, but look at v.18 "through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men..." 1 sin transgression of God's Law by one man, Adam, resulted in the condemnation and death to all mankind. This is why everyone is born lost, blind, and ready to increase in their sin when they get the chance. In Adam we are dead, in Christ we are alive.

We don't become lost and spiritually blind in the slavery of sin. We are born that way, we are born of the flesh.

Most Baptists do, praise God! I asked this to clear up another misconception of DoG. Generally speaking, the same way God causes us to persevere and continue to see and repent is the same way He brings us to Himself before we are saved. This is why our salvation is a complete work of grace from start to finish justification to glorification (See Romans 8:28-39)

No, my analogy was to show that sinners go to hell to pay for their sin. It doesn't matter if they have an opportunity to be forgiven or not. The point I was making was to refute your view of sinners going to hell because they reject Christ. At best that is secondary to the primary reason for hell. The DoG'ers do believe many of the elect get the offer to turn to Christ for forgiveness. The offer is the same, but the heart by which the offer falls upon is the key. God prepares the hearts of His elect that they may obey the Gospel.

Those who God does not elect to salvation by Grace through faith are left in the slavery of their sin for the purpose of justice. There are many misconceptions that can be drawn, so be careful to dismiss the DoG. Many are called, but few are chosen. Many non-elect hear the call and reject it as we all would apart from God's internal workings of mercy.

So does God make the righteous love Him or force them against their will so they will persevere? Or does He continue to do a beautiful work in their hearts that brings about continual repentance and faith in Christ to the end?

I don't believe God equally and effectually works in every human being who has ever lived. What I do believe is that God effectually saves some. I also believe the offer of the Gospel is extended to all the people that hear the truth. When I said grace brings us to God I meant the effectual work of God brings us to Him, and that same effectual work brings us home in accordance with Romans 8:28-39.

By saved daily I meant that God continually works within us effectually throughout our entire lives. Yes we are justified and forgiven of our sins once, but our sin nature is still hard at work and ready to lead us astray every day. Therefore, the power and grace of God keeps us in Christ, and this is the same power that brought us to Him to begin with. Salvation rests solely on the power of God before we are justified and until we are glorified. This is why Peter says to make our election sure, so our confidence is in the power of God rather than what we did in coming to Him.

 

Romans 8:1-4, "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

 

For a needed clarification, see here: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1631174&postcount=54

 

No....I couldn't figure out how to edit the original post and I thought the clarification was necessary for anyone who wasn't following Robert's new thread.

If any moderator or administrator type would like to edit the post (the one quoted) and insert the clarification link....that'd be fine with me.

The Archangel