Featured Spiritual Interpretation....pt4

Now you're talking! Do you have Scripture for these statements?

And once again, did Keach or Chilton tell you what the NT words for figures of speech are? I think that is very relevant to this discussion. If you want to do this from Scripture rather than Chilton, Keatch, and Gentry, get started!

I'm glad you mentioned this, because it brings up the fact that the uneducated (yet still intelligent), the poor (yet rich in Christ), the weak (yet with Christ's strength) do not interpret the Bible spiritually. They simply believe it as is, because that is normal communication. As you know, I was a missionary for 33 years in Japan. I have also lectured in a Bible school in a Muslim country not in Africa, and have taught Bible translation methodology in an African country. Never have I had a new believer, someone completely unfamiliar with American Christian culture, decide to interpret "spiritually." That is learned behavior, not natural, so it's not God's plan for interpreting the Bible. (And they don't have to be told what figures of speech are. They understand this naturally, according to the language ability God gives to all humans.)

In And the Word Came With Power, Bible translator Joanne Shetler tells how she was translating the Bible into the language of a tribe in the Philippines. With her tribal helper she came to 1 Tim. 2:12 about women teaching men. Her tribal helper read that Scripture on Sunday to the tribal church, and said, "We found in the Bible where it says that women aren't supposed to teach men, so I guess I have to be the one" (p. 87). He interpreted literally, unlike many "civilized" evangelicals who can't abide God's truth about gender roles, and became the pastor.

Think about it. You yourself give witness that you used to interpret literally. Your current method of interpretation is learned behavior, so it's not natural interpretation.

You missed my main point about Chilton, which was that if he got his degrees at a degree mill, then they are fake and he was dishonest in passing himself off as a scholar with advanced degrees. I don't care what the man teaches, if he is dishonest I will ignore him and get my information elsewhere.

I have a dear friend who got a doctorate at a similar school, but then realized it was a degree mill and now does not call himself "Dr." Now that is true Christian honesty.

 

Point taken. But of course Nicodemus was immediately rebuked by Jesus, meaning he should have understood the spiritual reality. But I don't think this is a proof text for the interpretation of prophecy.

Sorry, I have no idea what you are saying here.

For the record, I'm a trichotomist. The spirit is that part of the human with which he communicates with God. So "spiritual" in Scripture simply refers to that, not some mysterious world we can't comprehend.

Scripture?

This is supercilious. Since you brought it up, my historic premil father/pastor simply preached the Word while I grew up. He believed it exactly as written. And he and Mom were wonderful Christians who did not need any "spiritual" interpretation to guide them. They lived for Christ with their whole hearts.

 

Right back at you--figures of speech. Your point?

Since you won't answer my question (more than a brief statement with no followup) about the purpose of figures of speech, I'll tell you. They are illustrations of truth--they either illustrate truth or they hide it from those not allowed to know it, as Jesus pointed out (and you never gave Scripture for). In other words, the parables are the sermon illustrations of Jesus. When you make the symbolic language primary, you've missed the whole point.

 

Wait. You finally answer my question somewhat, then you bring up the sun, moon and stars, and then accuse me of avoiding the passage when you've just now mentioned it? For crying out loud, I was agreeing with you at one point that some truths are hidden, referring to this passage and waiting for you to actually reference it. Are you even reading my posts? You yourself on these threads have been saying to people, "Show me Scripture," but when I refer to a passage while waiting for you to bring it up, I'm avoiding it? Are you even reading my posts??? Looks to me like you've run out of arguments so you're resorting to personal attacks.

Tell you what. Try again. Ask me any direct question on any Scripture and I'll answer it.

 

When did Gabriel's 70 weeks end, or are we still waiting for the 70th week to start?

 

The 69th week marked the death of Christ on the cross, using the concurrent Jewish calendar of 30 days in a month. The 70th week will be the 7 year tribulation.

 

Thank you.

Gabriel told Daniel:

“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy. Dan. 9:24​

That prophesies the saving work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Was he mistaken when he prayed :

I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. John 17:4​

 

No, of course he wasn't mistaken. What's your point?

 

Serious premil scholars do not make the helicopter claim. I just told my eschatology class today not to speculate beyond Scripture. So what's your point?

 

Never said He totally rejected Israel, "Not all Israel is Israel", second what battle of Armageddon, you mean the one of Christian Fiction writers? And no there are no future plans, that was invented mid 1800's by a lunatic named John Darby and his "Brethren", see only they had true Revelation from God, and guess what, first time in history he put eh book Rev in the future!. So sorry but 100% of what you said is false.

 

My point is that 70 weeks was determined for that saving work, which Jesus FINISHED. Scripture records that finished work in Gospels, Acts & Epistles. We don't need an "interpretation system" to understand that.

If you completely separate week 70 from Gabriel's prophecy of Jesus' saving work then you are imposing an interpretation that has no basis in the text, nor linguistic justification.

 

That's not what I said, re-read it slowly so you might understand what I'm saying so you don't mis-characterize me.

 

Oh my gosh these people are stuuuuuuupid. Sorry can't do it anymore, they either don't read or don't understand what you say, so "When did Jesus come in the clouds", Oh my goodness, America, the Illiterate, God please shed your grace on thee"

 

Oh, great, another caustic poster on the BB. Just what we need.

If that's not what you said, please be more careful in what you say, because it certainly read that way.

 

What a sweet post, indicating a deep level of maturity.