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Featured Spiritual understanding - part 8

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Covenanter, Jun 7, 2017.

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  1. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Why do you think his reign will be DULL. What Scripture teaches you that? Or is it an example of your theology without reference to Scripture?

    You did not read the question, nor the Scripture before answering.

    You asserted:
    And next you imply that after his second coming "there be still be ISIS, false religions, and evil and suffering in the world."
     
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Here is some interesting input from Brian Schwertley....I had been reading Ladd on the Kingdom the other day and he quotes a small portion here;
    http://www.reformedonline.com/uploads/1/5/0/3/15030584/webkingdom.pdf

     
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  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I like this portion of this article;
    A consistent postmillennial eschatology recognizes that the doctrine of the kingdom of God contains a number of different elements and that while the church occupies the central role in the kingdom, our Lord’s rule will extend to all nations and earthly institutions.

    It is a great error to suppose that since Jesus’ kingdom is spiritual in nature that it can have no connection with things that are political, secular or that it is not directly connected with the visible church.

    Because the Bible speaks of the resurrected Savior holding a universal dominion (e.g., Mt. 28:18; Eph. 1:22; 1 Cor. 15:27, etc.), subduing His enemies in history (e.g., Ps. 2:8ff; 110; Dan. 7:13, 14, etc.), and of a genuine acceptance of Christianity among all nations (e.g., Ps. 22:27-27; 72:8-11; 86:9; Isa. 42:1, 3- 4, etc.), the kingdom in its broadest sense is obviously wider than the church. The various issues raised above will receive further elucidation as we consider this topic below.
     
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  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Does anyone object to this portion of the article? If so...why?

    I. Defining the Kingdom about the most pessimistic form of amillenialism on the Reformed scene today. Note further that not all amillenialists restrict the kingdom of God to the church. Berkof writes, “It is closely related to the church, though not altogether identical with it. The citizenship of the kingdom is co-extensive with the membership in the invisible church. Its field of operation, however, is wider than that of the church, since it aims at the control of life in all its manifestations” (L. Berkof, Systematic Theology [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1939], 409). In order to understand the meaning of the kingdom of God (or heaven) one must make a distinction between God’s reign, dominion or sovereignty over the universe as Lord, the Almighty, King, creator, sustainer and ruler over all and the mediatorial reign of Christ which was conferred upon Him as a result of His redemptive obedience.


    The triune God (the eternal Son included) has dominion over all as an aspect of His nature. Jehovah is sovereign. Thus, God is frequently referred to in the Bible as the great King. “The LORD is King forever and ever” (Ps. 10:16). “Who is the King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle” (Ps. 24:8). “The LORD sat enthroned at the flood, and the LORD sits as King forever” (Ps. 29:10). “For the LORD most high is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth” (Ps. 47:2). “For the LORD is the great God, and the great King above all gods” (Ps. 95:3). God as God is sovereign, all powerful, all knowing, everywhere present, the great law-giver, the giver of life and judge over all. Thomas Watson writes, His greatness appears by the effects of his power. He “made heaven and earth,” and can unmake it. Psa cxxiv 8. With a breath he can crumble us to dust; with a word he can unpin the world, and break the axle-tree of it in pieces. “He poureth contempt upon princes.” Job xii 21. “He shall cut off the spirit of princes.” Psa. lxxvi 12. He is Lord paramount, who does whatever he will. Psa cxv 3. He weigheth “the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance.” Isa xl 12.... Though he has many heirs, yet no successors. He sets up his throne where no other king does; he rules the will and affections; his power binds the conscience. Angels serve him, all the kings of the earth hold their crowns and diadems by immediate tenure from this great King. “By me Kings reign,” Prov viii 15. To this Lord Jehovah all kings must give account, and from his tribunal there is no appeal.6 The central meaning of the kingdom of God concerns Christ’s authority and rule as a reward for His redemptive obedience. It is not simply Jesus ruling as God but Christ the mediator, the God-man reigning over a kingdom of grace. William Symington writes, “The sovereign authority of Christ may be viewed either as necessary, or as official. Viewing him as God, it is necessary, inherent, and underived: viewing him as Mediator, it is official and delegated. It is the latter of these that we are now to contemplate.

    The subject of our present inquiry is, the MEDIATORIAL DOMINION of the Son; not that which essentially belongs to him as God, but that with which, by the authoritative act of the Father, he has been officially invested as the Messiah. It is that government, in short, which was laid upon his shouldersBthat power which was given unto him in heaven and in earth.”



    7 This point raises the following questions.
    Why is there a need for this kind of King and this type of kingdom?

    Why does not God simply continue to rule as God?


    The answer to this question is that a divine-human mediator, a soteriological king was and is needed because of the fall of Adam. Before he sinned, Adam was commanded to populate the earth and exercise dominion (cf. Gen. 1:28). If man had not fallen there would have been a worldwide civilization living in direct fellowship and communication with Jehovah. The whole human race would have constituted a kingdom under the direct loving rule of God. Under God’s direct rule and continuous revelation mankind would have progressively mastered the environment to God’s glory. All of man’s endeavors (science, art, architecture, agriculture, technology, etc.) would have been developed with a love toward God and man. The fall of man in Adam, however, rendered the idea of a God-glorifying culture, kingdom or civilization impossible apart from a salvation provided for a people by God Himself. Because of the fall, the human race is guilty before God and polluted by sin. All men are dead spiritually (Eph. 2:1-5), hate the truth, turn to idols (Rom. 1:18 ff.), dwell in darkness (Jn. 1:4- 5), have a heart of stone (Ezek. 11:19), are helpless (Ezek. 16:4-6), cannot repent (Jer. 13:23), cannot see or comprehend divine truth (1 Cor. 2:14) and are slaves of Satan (Ac. 26:17-18). James Orr writes, “The background of the whole picture in the Old Testament is that of a world in revolt, turned aside from God, sunk, and ever sinking deeper, in unrighteousness, abandoned to idolatry and to the lusts and corruptions which are the natural fruit of apostasy from the Creator, B a world in contrariety to the divine holiness, and judged as guilty, and justly exposed to the Divine anger.”
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I like this portion;
    It is through the Old Testament prophets that biblical teaching concerning the coming kingdom and the Savior-Messiah-King comes into focus. The prophets taught that an anointed One was coming who would bring deliverance and salvation to God’s people (cf. Isa. 34:12; 44:6; Zeph. 3:15).


    This king will come from the lineage of David (2 Sam. 7:8-17; Ps. 132:11-12; Isa. 11:1-5; Jer. 23:5ff; Ezek. 34:23ff; 37:24ff). “The localization of God’s throne in Jerusalem, and the virtual identification of the Davidic dynasty with the manifestation of God’s lordship in the earth, climaxed Old Testament typical representations of the movement toward the establishment of a messianic kingdom.” 10 He will be born of a virgin (Isa. 7:14) in Bethlehem (Mic. 5:2). His ministry will be preceded by one (i.e., John the baptizer) who comes in the spirit and power of Elijah (Isa. 40:3-4). The Messiah’s salvation and rule is founded upon His own suffering and death as a substitutionary atonement (Ps. 22; Isa. 53). He will be established in power as the mediatorial king during the period of Daniel’s fourth kingdom; the Roman Empire (Dan. 2:31-45).

    After His sacrificial death he will rise from the dead (Ps. 2:7; 16:10) and will ascend to heaven to be given universal dominion by God the Father—the Ancient of Days (Dan. 7:9 ff.; Ps. 2; 110).

    With this authority He shall rule all nations (Ps. 2, 8:5ff, 22:27-28; 72:8-11; 86:6; Isa. 2:2-3; 11:9; Zech. 9:10; Mal. 1:11).

    As King He will progressively subdue all His enemies (Ps. 2:8 ff; 110; Isa. 9:7; Dan. 2:34-35; 7:26). His kingdom will never end (Isa. 9:6-7; Dan. 2:44; 7:27). Unlike earthly kings He is perfectly just (Zech. 9:9) and is both God (Ps. 45:6-7; 102:25-27; 110:1, 4-5; Isa. 7:14; 9:6-7; Jer. 23:5-6; Mic. 5:2; Mal. 3:1-2) and man (Gen. 3:15; Dt. 18:15, 18; Isa. 7:14; 53; Mic. 5:2).

    Ridderbos writes, “The coming salvation is imperishable (Isaiah 51:6)...a new heaven and a new earth will come into existence (Isaiah 60:19; 65:17; 66:22); death will be annihilated (Isaiah 25:7ff.); the dead will be raised (Isaiah 26:19). In opposition to the eternal woe of the wicked there will come the eternal bliss of the redeemed (Isaiah 66:24).” 11 The kingdom that Christ inaugurates and brings to earth will progressively grow and then will reach perfection in the consummate kingdom at His second advent.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Why would anyone object here?

    Jesus rejected the common conception of the kingdom and instead taught a spiritual kingdom, a kingdom founded upon His vicarious suffering (cf. Lk. 24:21, 25-27)

    Our Lord proclaimed a redemptive, spiritual kingdom, a kingdom entered by being born again, by partaking of the first resurrection. “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (Jn. 3:5). This is a kingdom not of weapons and political might but of meek, humble service to Christ and one’s neighbor. “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth” (Mt. 5:5). “Behold your king is coming to you, lowly, and sitting on a donkey” (Mt. 21:5).


    Indeed, Jesus emphatically rejected the efforts of Jews to make Him an earthly political king (cf. Jn. 6:15). He always refused the efforts of the Jews to get Him involved in a conflict with the Roman authorities (e.g., Mt. 22:21; Mk. 12:17; Lu. 20:25; Jn. 8:3 ff., etc.). He declared to Pilate, “My kingdom is not of this world....My kingdom is not from here” (Jn. 18:36).

    “First, observe that He did not say ‘My kingdom is not in this world,’ but ‘My kingdom is not of this world.
    ’ Believers are not ‘of’ this world (17:6), yet they are in it.”


    16 The source of Christ’s kingdom is found in heaven. “The origin of Jesus’ kingship explains its unique character: it is ‘not of this world.’ Take the whole world as it is. It has produced many earthly kings and rulers. They all sprang out of (ek) this world and were kings that corresponded to such an origin. This king Jesus came out of heaven as the Son of God and thus holds a kingship of an entirely different type.”


    17 “The text does not say, as some foolishly teach, that Christ’s kingdom is irrelevant to the world; rather, it affirms that the kingdom is not derived from earth: ‘He was speaking of the source of His authority, not the place of His legitimate reign. His kingdom is not of this world but it is in this world and over it.’” 18 God the Father anointed Jesus beyond measure (Mt. 3:16-17) and gave Him all authority in heaven and on earth (Mt. 28:18). The divine-human mediator now sits and reigns from the right hand of God in heaven (Eph. 1:20-21). He sends His Spirit into the hearts of the elect enabling them to see and enter His kingdom (Jn. 3:3, 5). Thus, although our Lord’s kingdom power originates in heaven, it operates upon and affects this present world. “Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” (Mt. 6:10). Therefore, the key to expanding God’s kingdom on earth is preaching the gospel (which will be accompanied by Christ’s Spirit sovereignly regenerating people’s hearts) and discipling all nations (i.e., teaching and applying the whole counsel of God to every sphere of life). Paul also rejected an earthly, carnal conception of the kingdom: “The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit” (Rom. 14:17).
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Ron Hanko objects;
    By examining the multiple meanings of the kingdom of God,
    (1) The visible church [Mt. 16:18-19];

    (2) Eternal life or salvation [Jn. 3:3; 5:20; 7:21];

    (3) A Future salvation, the consummate kingdom [1 Cor. 6:9-10; Gal. 5:21; Eph. 5:5] or heaven itself [2 Tim. 4:18];

    (4) Kingdom privileges (Mt. 21:43];


    (5) The reign of Christ within the hearts of believers [Lu. 17:21], the reign of the Holy Spirit [Rom. 14:17];

    (6) Jesus’ messageBthe gospel [Lk. 4:43; 9:2; 16:16; Ac. 20:25; Mt. 9:35; 13:10];

    (7) The realm of Jesus’ reignBthe whole world [Mt. 13:24-30, 37-43], we can avoid some rather common misconceptions regarding the kingdom.

    The two most common misconceptions among Reformed believers are: (a) The kingdom of God must always be restricted to the church or the elect (e.g., Ronald Hanko writes, “Any attempt to make the kingdom something broader than or other than the church is wrong. Reformed theology and Scripture make them coextensive.” 27);

    or, (b) The kingdom of God has little or nothing to do with the church. The kingdom is only Christ’s reign over all. The church is viewed as merely one means to achieve the end--God’s reign over every sphere of life. Why is there such confusion regarding Christ’s kingdom?

    One reason is that while the mediator’s authority is obviously broader than the church and encompasses all things, the focus of our Lord’s attention is on His people. “And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church” (Eph. 1:22). Jesus governs the universe and He is the head of the church. He uses His mediatorial authority to save His people; and He rules for the best interests of the church.
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    from the article;

    The mediator is called the “King of nations” (Jer. 10:7), the “ruler over the kings of the earth” (Rev. 1:5), “Lord of lords and King of kings” (Rev. 17:14; 19:16). The term “nations” obviously refers to organized civil bodies. Jesus is the King over kings. They are under His authority and are within the bounds of His rule (the kingdom). As such they are responsible to live and rule according to His precepts. This teaching is found throughout the prophets.

    M’Crie writes, God addresses the nations in a collective capacity, reproves them for their idolatry, and calls them to his worship (Isa. 34:1; 41:1, 21-29). He proposes Christ, as his anointed servant, to them (chap. 42:1); declares that he has given the nations for his inheritance, and that he shall inherit them all (Ps. 2:8; 82:8; Isa. 53:15; 55:5). Christ addresses himself, not only to individuals, but to whole islands (Isa. 44:1), nations join themselves to him (Isa. 2:2; Micah 4:1, 2; Zech 2:11; 8:20-22), bless themselves to him and glory in him (Jer. 4:2); all nations and dominions serve him (Dan. 7:14, 27).

    They consecrate all things in them, and employ them in his service (Isa. 60:1-12; Zech. 14:20, 21); he owns these nations as his, and blesses them, while he breaks in pieces and wastes others (Ps. 33:12; 145:15; Isa. 19:25; Ps. 2:9, 12; Isa. 60:12).32 The biblical evidence that Christ is presently reigning over the nations is so clear and overwhelming, that it is astonishing that this vital doctrine is ignored by so many in our day
     
  9. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    I have this problem - I read what you write & when there are spelling mistakes, I consider what you might have meant.

    Is "pretierist" an eschatological term or is it related to physical attraction?
    e.g. Madge is prettier than Betty.

    I referred you to my avatar, but as usual you ignored what I wrote when you quoted my post.

    Your avatar by comparison is ugly.

     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, if there has been the second coming already, why were all of those things still happening?
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    If Jesus was really ruling in His Messianic Kingdom here upon the earth, there would be NO flase religions, no sickness/poverty, no wars etc!
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    So which verses quoted are mistaken?
    You made a statement....support it.
    Jesus reigns right now.....some reject His rule and word.
    This is called sin and rebellion....but it does not mean He is not King.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do you agree that the scriptures teach to us when Jesus returns to earth, that he will reign, as all nations shall be submitting to Him , as Lord ?
    King James Bible Psalm 2
    2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

    2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

    3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

    4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

    5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

    6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

    7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

    9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

    10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

    11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

    12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I do not agree for one simple reason. You quote psalm 2 as yet future???
    Turn in your bible to Acts4 and notice the Apostles quote this as describing both Herod, and Pilate,and all the people opposing Jesus at His first coming and the start of His Kingly reign. They hated Him and His Kingdom so much they crucified Him.
    Now....you did recognise that He is King in Psalm 2......so did the Apostles!!!
     
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  15. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    My father in my eyes was godly man... Loved church and he loved the preaching and the people... One day out of curiosity I asked him... Daddy does Jesus rule the world?... He said why do you ask?... I said well some of my friends say the Devil does as there is so much evil in the world... He said come here... He took me outside and pointing to Sun said the Sun rose this morning and it will set this evening. Then the moon will come out when it gets dark and so will the stars and they will fill the sky... When the Sun does not rise in the morning and set in the evening and the moon and stars appear then God has lost control... But until then he still reigns and controls the Universe he created... As a child I understood him perfectly and as a grown man I still do... When someone says the :Devilish rules the world, I just look at them shake my head and go DUH?:Rolleyes... Brother Glen
     
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  16. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Do you know where else Psalm 2 is quoted?

    Romans 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

    Heb. 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
    You are My Son,
    Today I have begotten You”
    ?
    If Jesus is not reigning, NOW, what is the value of this encouraging word?
    Rev. 1:4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
    Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
    To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
     
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  17. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Y1, you've given occasion to revisit your post -

    Every post Y1 you show serious ignorance of the Scriptures - probably everyone else on the forum would reject your foolish assertion -
    you CANNOT have theology apart from the Scriptures.​

    Calling yourself "Jesus" is dangerously close to blasphemy, & posting non-Scriptural opinions is never a valid contribution to the understanding of Scripture.

    What did the real Jesus say?
    Luke 24:25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” 27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

    I have patiently answered many of your posts, as hopefully visitors to the thread with similar questions will appreciate answers. However I would suggest that you spend a few days quietly studying the answers to your posts and the cited Scriptures before coming back with informed questions.

    And when you do post again, it would be really helpful if you read both what you are replying to AND your own post to correct spelling mistakes (underlined in red) & check if what you are writing makes sense & is supported by Scripture.
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    If Christ’s kingship and the millennial reign are future events, then why does the Apostle Paul always describe Christ’s enthronement with past tense verbs? “He put all things under His feet and gave Him to be head over all things to the church” (Eph. 1:22). “God has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name” (Phil. 2:9).

    Why does Paul, writing in the first century, use the present tense to describe the reign of Christ? “For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet” (1 Cor. 15:25).


    Why does Paul tell the Colossian believers that they have been translated [past tense] into the kingdom of the Son of His love” (Col. 1:13)? For the believers in the first century, the kingdom (the millennium) was a present reality
     
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  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Some people may have seen the old film Mutiny on the Bounty with Trevor Howard and Marlon Brando.
    A British warship is taken over by a bunch of mutineers and the loyal crew put on a lifeboat and cast adrift.
    Now because one of George II's ships had been over did not affect the rule of Parliament and the governance of Britain in any way whatsoever. It carried on exactly as before. In due course a boat was despatched to Tahiti where most of the mutineers had gone. They were arrested, taken back to England and hanged.

    There is a parallel with the situation in the world today, summed up by Psalm 2. We have a rebellion against God's rule instigated by Satan. However, God's rule throughout the Universe is not affected; He still reigns over all and laughs at Man's puny efforts to displace Him for He has placed the Lord Jesus on the throne.. And in His good time the Lord Jesus Christ will subdue the rebellion utterly (Revelation 19:11-21).

    To deny Christ's present rule is a subtle form of practical deism. If He is not reigning, there's no point in praying to Him so the churches today have abandoned the prayer meeting; and if He is not reigning it doesn't matter much whether I obey His commands or not, so the morals of Christians tend to be little better than those of the world.
     
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Lord Jesus stated that Satan is the god of this present age, and that He will put down that Kingdom wheen hr returns at His second coming !
     
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