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Stable Genius Once Again Picking Winners and Losers

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by InTheLight, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. 777

    777 Well-Known Member
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    try:

    https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf

    read that they're all excited about this tariff in PA, they will benefit there short-term but I can't see how it doesn't cause prices to go up. Just sorry SF is using Chinese steel on that new bridge, the problems there are just starting.
     
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  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    That's the exact document I had read a couple days ago. The answers are in there, but I don't think supporters of the steel tariffs want to know the answers.

    Prices will go up. US steel producer companies that make raw steel will love the tariffs. They employ a couple hundred thousand people and might hire a couple thousand people. Companies that make things out of steel will not like it. They employ many millions and will be laying off a couple hundred thousand people.



    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Trade wars are easy to win!


    IMG_20180304_124421.jpg


    BTW, the US already imposes a 2.5% tariff on imported foreign cars and a 25% tariff on imported foreign trucks and commercial vans.

    The European Union currently imposes a 10% tariff on imported US cars.
     
  4. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Inflation maybe...even likely...and along with that more jobs and higher wages, in a competitive market for a change.. So hold on to your low interest fixed mortgage, enjoy the ride and then paying the 1-2 hundred $ increase in the price of steel on that new car won't seem such a terrible thing to snibble about . In the meantime, American ingenuity back in gear is likely to start flooding the market which will bring prices back down while the jobs and higher earnings stay up. Seems odd how some Americans don't appreciate giving the U.S.A. a competitive chance or even an edge. Like its a terrible thing for us to be in control, I'm guessing its that Progressive Globalists mindset that has taken over our country.. "Picking ourselves for a winner", shun the dastardly thought!! I don't think the sky is falling just yet...
     
    #64 Benjamin, Mar 4, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  5. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Inflation likely... prices will come back down... as earnings stay up...

    Welcome to economics fantasy land, everyone!




    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    WOW....all for the privilege of buying a Chevy or Ford ---JUNK!:Laugh
     
  7. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Yep, I guess my Mom paying $110 a month on her fixed house mortgage 35 years ago while I paid $450 for a 1 bedroom apartment was just an economic fantasy of mine along with I suppose my belief that 1 car and 1 TV per household were once typical but now would be on the low end of the economical scale is just a figment of my imagination as well. Nope, you're right, we are doomed if we try to led the way by imposing fair trade practices for the U.S.A. again. How dare we think or even dream about leading the world in middle class lifestyle quality like in the past...how arrogant us American Capitalists are to try to lead the world economy... :)

    Never worked, never will...
     
  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    You're attributing things to me that I haven't said. Never said we were doomed or didn't want high standards of living.

    You said that inflation was likely but that prices would come down as unemployment stays low and wages go up. That is economic Fantasyland.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
  9. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Not sure what you consider prices going up and jobs diminishing because of imposing fair trade is supposed to mean then...

    I consider your trying to separate standard of living from the above without regard to lifestyle quality benefits to be "fantasy" resting on ambiguity...or to be more precise more like failing to see beyond your nose to acknowledge all the issues and/or maybe too much interest in dissing the idea of getting fair trade back on track and what it takes while letting TDS get in your way...but I could be wrong. :)

    ...and BTW it appears you have problem with picking the U.S.A. to be a winner...
     
    #69 Benjamin, Mar 4, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, you're wrong. Your idea that we will have full employment, rising wages, yet prices will come down is the fantasy I'm talking about.

    All the other stuff you are ascribing to me is stuff you are making up in your head.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
  11. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Guess the issues of "trying to separate standard of living from the above" - "without regard to lifestyle quality benefits" - and "to be "fantasy" resting on ambiguity" was a little much for you to factor in to your claims leading to your conclusions. Its alright, don't worry about it, didn't really expect you to keep up...

    Well, better out of my head than elsewhere... ;)
     
  12. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    No problem. Nobody knows what you're saying.



    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
  13. Wingman68

    Wingman68 Active Member

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  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Regarding the steel tariffs, isn't this a likely scenario?:

    1. We institute a 25% tariff on steel.

    2. Domestic steel producers take advantage and raise steel prices, say, 20%.

    3. Everything made from US produced steel costs more.

    4. Mexico and other countries we were selling steel to are now driven to other lower cost suppliers.

    5. China sells more steel.

    6. Stable Genius' plan to punish China backfires.
     
  15. Wingman68

    Wingman68 Active Member

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  16. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    The President brought in the executives from the steel and aluminum industries and they wanted tariffs across the board. One might argue that of course these executives like this because it saves their industry but only want to focus on what about costs increases?

    Let look at these (the sky is falling) cost increases:

    A 6-pack of aluminum cans – the cost will go up 1 ½ cents.

    An automobile on average will increase $175.

    A Boeing 777, a $330,000,000 airplane will go up $25,000.

    Let’s see: Would the typical rational thinking American be willing to pay a cent and a half more on his 6-pack of beer in order to have a steel and aluminum industry?

    Let’s look at what has happened to the steel and aluminum industry because OF TRADE IMBALANCE:

    We’ve lost 6 smelters since 2013, down to 5 smelters and only 2 of them are at full capacity, we are running at a 43% capacity rate and one is producing high grade aluminum for defense applications.

    China now controls 55% of the aluminum market and 50% of the steel market. In 2000 we were the largest aluminum producer in the world, today we have 1.5% of the global market and China’s got 55%.

    We charge 2.5% tax on cars coming in, other countries around the world charge 25% for our cars coming into their country. …But for us to charge 25% on steel and 10% on aluminum to save these industries has some screaming that THE SKY IS FALLING!

    The mentality that we should continue to do nothing about fair trade imbalance and to neglect that we will lose our steel and aluminum industries defies common sense.
     
  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Obviously your knowledge of economics and manufacturing is lacking.

    It's not just the cost of the raw materials that will get passed on to consumers. It's the cost of the raw materials PLUS the cost of labor PLUS the markup ALL THE WAY THROUGH the manufacturing process. You think the cost of a plane will only go up by the cost of the raw materials? No way. That cost will ripple through all the subcontractors and small manufacturers that touch any piece of that plane that is made of steel or aluminum.

    This tells me that demand for steel and/or aluminum is declining OR that our prices are out of line with the market.

    Now let's take a look at the top two US steel companies. How are they doing?

    Nucor's income statements (net profit):
    2015 +679 million
    2016 +81 million
    2017 +796 million

    US Steel showed these net profits:
    2015 -$1.642 Billion
    2016 -$440 million
    2017 +387 million

    Here's their stock performance over the past two years. Does it look like they are failing?

    NuCor-Stock.jpg


    US-Steel-Stock.jpg


    How much iron ore and bauxite does China have compared to the US? Maybe our days as a steel producing giant is over?


    The EU charges a 10% tariff on US cars and trucks. The US charges a 2.5% tariff on imported cars and 25% on imported trucks and commercial vans.

    Why should the government step in and "save" these industries? Why not let the free market sort it out?

    The US steel industry is losing market share--THE SKY IS FALLING!!

    What's so special about the steel industry? Why does it need to be protected?

    Why don't we simply blow up Chinese container ships that are carrying steel?
     
    #77 InTheLight, Mar 6, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  18. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Darn, if only Trump would consult you and consider your statistics about the shape of fair trade practices and what our declining economy needs to correct the problems I'm sure he'd realize how mistaken he is about making these moves to fix it! Obviously his advisors are merely second rate and are just defying the well working and respected established trend. :)
     
    #78 Benjamin, Mar 6, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Notice you didn't address anything I said, just put forth an ad hominem response.

    Also, "Our declining economy" = Strawman.

    Awesome rebuttal.

    Gary Cohn, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, and Trump's chief economics adviser, is resigning in protest over the tariff issue. I wouldn't call him second rate and he's against the tariffs. BTW, he started his career with US Steel.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
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  20. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Wall St. slides as trade war worries weigh
    NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stocks fell on Wednesday after President Donald Trump sought to impose fresh tariffs on China, intensifying fears of a trade war that could raise costs and hurt overseas sales for U.S. companies.
    The Trump administration is pressing China to cut its trade surplus with the United States by $100 billion, the White House said Wednesday.

    Trump is looking to levy tariffs on up to $60 billion of Chinese imports, targeting the technology, telecom and apparel sectors, sources told Reuters on Tuesday.
     
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