Stalemate dims prospects for $25B auto bailout

[rbell]

The United Auto Workers, playing the well-rehearsed role of "whiners," have been busy today slamming the state of Alabama.

http://www.wsfa.com/global/story.asp?s=9388240

Apparently, they've got their depends in a wad over the fact we can barely build car plants fast enough down here...and they are not unionized.

They slammed us for supporting "foreign companies." (This is a crock--much of the "American cars" you buy are pre-assembled overseas or use mostly overseas parts.)

Governor Bob Riley's response? "...companies keep picking Alabama for the quality of its workers and their ability to make good products, not just (tax) incentives. That kind of work doesn't require a bailout."

SLAM!!!

Is there any doubt that the bailout is a bribe to the United Auto Workers?

 

[dragonfly]

They need to declare bunkruptcy and restructure themselves into companies that can turn a profit. Right now they have too many brands, too many factories, too many workers, and too many dealerships. This is what Mitt Romney is advocating and I think it makes sense.

This is one possible solution. Regardless of the fix, we need an American auto industry!

 

[dragonfly]

So, Dragonfly...where in the Constitution does it become government's job to let some businesses fail, and others succeed?

In this instance, I don't care what the Constitution says.

Furthermore: when you give a company who is failing because of their poor decisions free money, what lesson is learned? What stops them from coming back next year for $100 billion?

I think the companies need to be restructured and put in a position to compete against foreign companies which pay their workers peanuts. Perhaps a tariff on foreign autos would be one solution.

Thanks for the juvenile insult. I'm not "simple minded" for "letting a business fail." I just happen to believe enough in personal responsibility and the consequences of poor decisions to know that government can't rescue everyone and make everyone happy, wealthy, and carefree.

I was making a general statement. I was not talking about anyone in particular. I do think it is a simple-minded viewpoint that would not see the importance of having an American auto industry.

Also, keep in mind: If the big 3 (whose execs flew down to DC in executive private jets (!), underscoring they don't get it) don't get their fix, they won't go out tomorrow. They'll restructure. Happens all the time. And if they do it right, they'll be like Harley Davidson--a thriving, profitable venture. If they let the unions run them in the ground, they'll be like Eastern Airlines...out.

If they can recover without a bailout, good! If not, I think the government should do what is necessary to see these companies do not go under. Too much is at stake, including a major part of American industry which I believe we need to save.

 

[Bro. James]

Declare "bunkruptcy" and start making select comfort mattresses or waterbeds. The foreigners have most of the car market anyway--they seem to be beating us at our own game.

The whole country is in need of Chapter 11. Let's start in Detroit. Whatever happened to an affordable hybrid? The technology is there--someone does not want to build the infrastructure. Not enough profit--for the stockholders? The CEOs are doing well. Strange.

There is greed aka, love of money, in most socio-economic levels, including the middleclass.

Our biggest bankruptcy is of a spiritual nature--we have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof. The dollar is our god and we are making our own destiny. Our amorality is making full circle.

Where is Jonah? Perhaps God has given us up to our reprobate minds.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Jim1999]

In the USA, I don't think you will see much action on the auto industry until after your new president takes office.

In Canada, we are still considering the assistance to the auto industry, but with certain conditions. There are far too many industries affected by the auto industry to not take it seriously.

It is amazing at how stupid those highly paid executives were in continuing the manufacture of the big 8 cylinder trucks that are sitting on car lots across Canada in favour of the smaller, more efficient trucks. If China and India ever get their auto manufacturing iin gear we will see another price crunch. With their starvation wages, we will all be buried.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[swaimj]

In the news today there are reports that the coming Obama administration is considering a "pre-packaged bankruptcy" for the automakers allowing them to restructure. After those stories hit the net Obama's people denied they were considering such. Well, where there is smoke there is fire, so they probably are considering it. Any such restructuring, to be effective, will require the end of the current union contracts which have forced the US automakers to be uncompetitive for years. The irony of the Obama administration presiding over the end of these union contracts is so rich!

 

[rbell]

In this instance, I don't care what the Constitution says.

Wow. Well, you should. It's what makes this country great, and ignoring it would be disastrous. I hope your view is in the distinct minority.

I think the companies need to be restructured and put in a position to compete against foreign companies which pay their workers peanuts. Perhaps a tariff on foreign autos would be one solution.

Friend, I'm not sure you have good data. Many of the cars that the "big 3" are competing with actually are making their cars over here. And they're paying good money. Really good. Folks working for Hyundai, Honda, Mercedes, and Toyota in Alabama are making a very good living. It is a tad less than union workers...but union auto workers are overpaid. That's part of the problem.

Furthermore...you think the economy's a mess now? Put a big tax on "foreign cars" (even though that Toyota you buy had more Americans touch it than the Ford did)--and watch it tank, big time, when you make the best cars on the market unaffordable. That's an absolutely horrible idea.

"So what about parts makers overseas, etc.?" You might ask. Guess what...the Big 3 use overseas parts by the truckloads. So, they aren't exactly "all American" cars. If a factory worker in Taiwan is making peanuts for wages while building auto parts, it's just as likely that the part is going in a Chevy as it is a Toyota. So...there's no difference here.

I was making a general statement. I was not talking about anyone in particular. I do think it is a simple-minded viewpoint that would not see the importance of having an American auto industry.

(sigh) No one has said that. There are some of us that don't feel that our money should be used to bail out companies who have failed due to their own problems. That isn't even close to the same thing.

If they can recover without a bailout, good! If not, I think the government should do what is necessary to see these companies do not go under. Too much is at stake, including a major part of American industry which I believe we need to save.

So, pointed question: What industry is next? Do we bail out the airlines? (Hint: We haven't before, but if we bail the cars out, we lose our moral high ground to refuse the airlines). How 'bout computer manufacturers? Even now, cities (!) are lining up for money. Who's gonna bail out the taxpayer, who will lose everything bailing out everyone else?


There's a reason that we're not socialist. I see no reason to start now.

If the big 3 go down, will it be a blow? Of course it will! But...

• There has never been a business that was guaranteed eternal existence. Otherwise, we would have government-supported stagecoach companies.
• "Bankruptcy" does not necessarily mean "out of business." It's a restructuring.
• Free money with no accountability is a recipe for disaster. And as all have seen, these CEO's don't have a clue--they're blowing money even now, despite the fact their companies are in dire straits.
• $25 billion is just for now. It won't be three months before they're back, begging for more. When will we stop giving them money? And I'd rather have a collapsed GM than a collapsed US government.