Standards to a Fundamentalist

So what do you make of the the phrase "and things like these" in Gal 5:21 that follows a list of sins. It seems like Paul was expecting believers to be able to continue the list with things that God had not specifically mentioned.

Take for another instance the command to "Love God with all that we are." There is no specific list of how to do that, yet the Bible seems to teach that a maturing believer will know what things "love God" and what things do not "love God."

The legalism that looks to the Bible as an exhaustive list of sins is just as bad as any other kind of legalism, except it parades about in a false spirituality that declares itself to be more holy than someone else. It's a dangerous thing to assert more than the Bible does, and that includes asserting that sin is only what the Bible explicitly declares to be sin.

Think about it: If you are right (that people should be silent where the Bible doesn't speak), then people prior to the close of the NT canon could not have preached at all, or would have had a very limited message. But all through human history, God has expected man to know what it means to break God's law, and this comes through conscience, such as Rom 2 where the Gentiles who do not have the law do by nature the things in the law. There, we are plainly told that the knowledge of sin is not mediated only by Scripture.

I won't defend the standards of a lot of "fundamentalists." In fact, I won't even grant that they are fundamentalists. I will simply say that the reaction should not be another kind of legalism. Leaving one kind for another of the same kind is hardly admirable.

 

Reading these posts I had the strangest feeling of deja-vu. I have read this argument before. I know it was in Romans 14! And Paul's response to such issues was "...let each be fully convinced in his own mind..." (Romans 14:5 NKJV) and "Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God." (Romans 14:22 NKJV)

 

I really feel the Bible teaches that one must have standards. The debate comes in only in defining what those standards are. Are there any that have no standards?

 

Not really;

Do you not have any standards?

 

That's my point, we all have standards. These standards should be biblical. The real discussion is not IF we have standards or find them important, but WHAT our standards are and how do we determine them?


You are the one who started the thread so I shall leave the definition of standards up to you?

 

I agree, but the point is about the phrase "and things like these." Paul expected believers to know what else went in that list that didn't get in the Bible. So it seems like there is clear biblical evidence that we should preach against some things that are not in the Bible, doesn't it?

I agree, but the "precept or principle" means that it is not necessarily explicitly stated, right?

 

Jesus taught us in the Sermon on the Mount that it goes beyond simple rule-keeping. ("...you have heard it said....but I tell you...")

Sometimes, it's about living wisely so as to not put yourself, or someone else, in the place of temptation.

For many of these issues, the right/wrong question is the incorrect question.

Right or wrong? Sometimes I don't know. But often times, it's clear to me that something isn't wise. That's enough for me.

 

Well said. I can agree with you on this one.

 

I agree, but my point is that a "scriptural case" is not limited to explicit commands or statements. "Things like these" clearly imply that there are things that are not stated in Scripture that belong in the list, and believers led by the Spirit should know what those things are without having them explicitly stated in Scripture.

But there are scriptural principles about communication that apply to music just as there are that apply to marijuana, and those are too frequently overlooked. So it is incorrect to say that Scripture says nothing about music, and therefore all is fair game.

BTW, blasphemy against the Spirit has to do with miracles of JEsus on earth. It doesn't really apply here.

 

Statutes

Statutes...there are something things are not pleasant in the sight of the Lord!

 

Actually there are.

Like he did with marijuana? ...

You have already contradicted yourself by your argument against marijuana which is not something God clearly said in his Word.

I could easily say, "If God were against marijuana he would have clearly said so in his Word," but you already admitted that God didn't clearly say so in his Word, but you believe there are scriptural principles that apply.

So you are inconsistent. You use the argument when it's convenient for you and reject it when it's not. That's problematic for thinking people. It's pretty easy to see through and I think it is why in some circles Christianity doesn't have a lot of credibility. It gets the reputation of just making it up as you go along.

Really?

No one has claimed such.

Even yours? Such as saying that there are no scriptural principles that apply to music?

Exactly, but "these things" are not clearly stated. The idea that if God had been against he could have clearly said so would mean that the "things like these" is a meaningless statement. The reason he says "things like these" is because there are "things like these" that were clearly identified that he is against that he has not clearly identified. And Spirit-led believers should be able to know what goes in that list.

My point is not that opinions or personal likes or dislikes have biblical authority, but rather that the idea that "If God had been against he would have clearly said so" is an unbiblical idea, and that is demonstrated by the phrase "things like these" as well as by your own argument.

I think a lot of fundamentalist have bad standards that are man-made and have no root in Scripture. And I think a lot of people who complain about fundamentalist standards have bad standards that are man-made and have no root in Scripture. Fundamentalists have no corner on standards not rooted in Scripture.

As for blasphemy against the Spirit, read it in context and see what it was. It was referring to the miracles of Christ on earth, specifically exorcism. They said, "He is casting out demons by the power of Satan."

 

That's because there is not one without a good bit of scripture twisting and eisegesis.