Strange Things the Holy Spirit Cannot Do….

No, of course not. I don't believe that. My comments in this thread are not really even directed at how Rom 8:1 should read (whether the KJV or the MVs). My comments are directed at the methodology by which you claim to make a decision. You have a bad methodology.

That would be helpful.

No of course not. The issue was assurance of salvation, not accomplishment of salvation.

Based on the promises of God (cf. John 3:16, et al), the testimony of the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:16), and the evidences of salvation in the life (1 John, Col 1:22-23; Heb 3:12-14, etc.) I have assurance of salvation because I believe what Jesus did was sufficient, not because I believe in my faith.

Don't get confused about the question. Having salvation and having assurance of salvation are two different things. One can be saved and have no assurance and one can be unsaved and have complete assurance.

It's exchanges like this that make me think you aren't even paying attention to what is being talked about.

 

The Bible says that our hearts are deceitful (Jer 17:9). Your heart can deceive you about your salvation. In Matthew 7, Christ talks of those who will say, "Lord, Lord ..." and yet will be unsaved. They obviously had assurance without salvation.

On the other hand, there are those who can doubt because of weakness of faith, yet they have truly been regenerated.

 

I think I have heard certain preachers preach away: "I FEEL the Spirit in me. I FEEL saved! Hallelujah!....."

Cheers,

Jim

 

Yes, but that's not saving faith.

Yes.

Correct.

It is faith. You are not paying attention here. Faith connects us to Jesus. Jesus saves us through faith. All people have faith. Salvation comes when your faith is in the right object.

All are not saved because all do not have faith in Christ. They have faith in works, faith in baptism, faith in being good, faith in giving money, faith in Buddha, faith in the non-existence of God, faith in all kinds of things.

I answered this above: 1) The promises of God; 2) the testimony of the Spirit; 3) the evidences of salvation.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Trust Christ and follow him.

By trusting in Christ and following after him.

Now remember, you are asking about assurance here ("How can I be certain?"), not about salvation itself.

 

Fight for your faith through constant exposure to the Word and to godly people who can help you. Preach the gospel to yourself day after day and rely wholly on Christ.

 

That comment was made about a different topic, but the point is clear. Believing the wrong thing is still wrong, no matter how much you believe it.

Their faith was not in Christ. If it was they would have been saved. You are creating a contradiction.

I didn’t allude to it. I plainly stated it. And I was talking about assurance, not salvation. (And I made that clear when I said it).

You quote James 2:14-17, but fail to note that that passage is talking about a particular kind of faith—“Can that faith save him?” The point is not whether or not faith alone saves, but rather what the nature of the kind of faith alone that saves is.

This verse has been used by many to corrupt the glorious gospel of Christ—to add works or efforts to saving faith. Such is the kind of deceit that will lead people to think they are saved, but will find them standing before God unsaved because they were trusting in something other than Christ alone.
\

 

Honestly, this is one of the most ridiculous threads I think I have ever read.

Here Ye...Here Ye: :wavey:

Any christian, in any conversation...be it discussion board or not...has every right in the world to articulate what they believe the Holy Spirit of God has testified to them!

And when that event occurs...nobody...be it a "moderator" or not...has any right to forbid them from articulating that.

From Romans 14...

If someone doesnt agree with someone else about something, hash it out, discuss it, argue, "contend earnestly for the faith", etc.

But it is unthinkable to tell someone that they have no right to articulate what they believe God, through the Holy Spirit, is speaking to them. Maybe they are wrong about what they believe God is saying to them...but until God makes that plain to them, they have a right to articulate what they believe the Holy Spirit is teaching them right then.

Why that would bother anybody is completely beyond me.



Sorry, just couldnt hold it in any longer. :laugh:


:godisgood:

 

AIC, you are wrong. You have not been reading carefully enough. I will give you some simple examples.

Does 3+2=5 ? How do you know? Was it the Holy Spirit witnessing to your spirit that three added to two would equal five. Or did you come to this knowledge some other way?

What about 5X6=30 ? Is that a correct statement? How do you know? Did the Holy Spirit tell you? Did you have to pray about it? Did God supernaturally reveal it to you?

Is water composed of two atoms of Hydrogen to one atom of Oxygen? If so, is this knowledge gained by the Holy Spirit?

Does the absence or presence of the last half of Romans 8:1 come because the Holy Spirit testifies to your spirit that it is the truth? No, it does not. That too is outside the limits of biblical knowledge. The Holy Spirit does not guide in that are no more than he leads in the are of adding two numbers together.

It is not wrong to have convictions. I have a strong conviction that two plus three equals five. But that conviction isn't as important as my conviction that Jesus Christ is deity, a conviction worth dying for. One may have a conviction about Romans 8:1 including the last half of the verse as it does in the KJV. That is a matter of textual criticism, not a matter of the Holy Spirit witnessing to one's spirit of the truth. If you give into that nonsensical reasoning the one using that reasoning has come to the conclusion that:
1. All who disagrees with him does not have the Holy Spirit and is therefore unsaved.
2. That if the Holy Spirit is able to testify an opposing view to others, then the Holy Spirit is schizophrenic; or opposes Himself. Either way he doesn't have a very high view of God.
3. Or, He has a monopoly on the Holy Spirit in all matters of truth, whether or not he is right. All who disagree with him are wrong because the Holy Spirit has witnessed to his spirit that he is right.

No. God does not work that way. He does not work against his own nature. He does not oppose himself.

 

DHK,

In your quoting of my post, you didnt include probably the most important part.

The scripture from Romans 14...

Here is God saying "Let your brother be fully convinced in his own mind", and yet you and others are telling HP that he can not be "fully convinced in his own mind"

To be honest, I cant even remember what the original point was on the 1st thread that this is all about, but I think I remember that I disagreed with HP like you did.

I have no problem with disagreeing with the original point, only with HP being chastised for sharing what he sincerely believes the Holy Spirit has taught him.

And if HP has no right to say what he believes the Holy Spirit has taught him, why do YOU have the right to share what you believe the Holy Spirit has taught you?

Its just very bizarre.

 

It is not about having "the right" to say it. It is about whether or not it is right to say it ... in other words, is it theologically accurate. In this case, it isn't. And no one should object when bad theology is pointed out.

The Holy Spirit works through the Word, not apart from it, and his role doesn't include extra-biblical revelation about which textual variant is correct.

That is about an entirely different topic. Romans 14 is about matters of conscience where a believer might not participated in something that is acceptable to God because his conscience forbids it. It is not about whether we can invoke the Holy Spirit as a trump card to promote our personal beliefs.

Who here said that anyone didn't have a right to say something?

Self-control is one of the fruits of the Spirit.

 

Pastor Larry...

You said...

You did, on the 1st page of this thread, when you said to HP...

And DHK, also on the 1st page...

Again, I ackowledge that someone might not be correct when they say something like that. If that is the case, God will straiten them out in due time. But at the time, the person believes God has taught them something, and they should have the freedom to post accordingly.


:godisgood:

 

Does a poster have the freedom to post: God taught me 3+3=7.
Does a poster have the freedom to post a lie, and then say that God taught me it?
No one has that freedom.

 

This is a false statement. You should be ashamed even to post such.
The discussion has centered around Romans 8:1.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

or

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. (ASV)

The ASV is translated from the Critical Text, and the KJV is translated from the Majority Text.
These are extra-biblical matters studied in the realm of textual criticism.
Is "textual criticism" found in the Bible? No.
Is "Majority Text" or "Critical Text" found in the Bible? No.

God does not bear witness of these things. God cannot tell you which is right and which is wrong. You can state your opinion, your belief, your conviction. But do not state that God told you..." When you do so you are claiming extra-biblical revelation. The canon is closed. You are also inferring that half of the board who believes differently than you are unsaved.