A good post. Just pointing out that this post presumes that men have the right to mount an insurrection against their oppressors.
The "submit to Nero" mantra presumes just the opposite.
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Submit to Nero
- Thread starter Aaron
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The "submit to Nero" mantra presumes just the opposite.
Biblically I can find no straight yes or no, which is why I made the post the way that I did. I find biblical examples for both.
Therefore, I would look to the civil authority. For the US that would be our founding documents.
"Whenever any form of government is destructive of these ends [life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness] it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government in such form as to them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness.” Declaration of Independence, 1776
This tells me that we not only have the right, but also the responsibility to act. The action taken is between the individual and God.
poncho
Well-Known Member
I'm saying authority has limits. In the USA the government's authority is limited by the constitution. When the government steps outside of that legal authority it is no longer acting as a legitimate authority.
God's ministers are for good not evil. God's ministers are not to be a terror to good works. A minister for God for good would follow the law that restricts his authority and should not use trickery and fear to increase his authority beyond what is given him by the law. When he does that he is not being a minister for good but for evil. He is not acting according to God's will but of his own will.
What happened to Saul when he acted according to his own will?
What happened to David when he acted according to his own will?
No American whether they be a Christian or not should be made to feel they have to submit to illegitimate authority in this country based on a couple verses of scripture.
There are many instances in the bible where men and women have defied civil authority and were praised by God. Romans 13 is not the be all end all scripture on submission to authority as the illegitimate authorities and government 501 c3 preachers would have us believe.
The first part of the solution would be for God's ministers (preachers) to be honest and preach the whole bible instead of telling us we have to submit to tyrants because there are a couple passages in it that seem to read that way.
All battles, all wars, all fistfights and bar brawls, all conflicts in every place and in every time (except those conflicts in which both sides answer to the same puppeteer) begin and end as battles of the mind. No struggle is determined on strength of arms alone. In fact, the technologically advanced adversary with all his fancy firepower is often more vulnerable than his low-tech counterparts. This fact is, of course, counterintuitive to our Western manner of thinking, which teaches us to believe that the man with the bigger gun (or the bigger predator drone) always wins. Sadly, we have had to suffer through multiple defeats and overdrawn occupations in Asia to learn otherwise. One of the great unspoken truths of our era is the reality that the modernization of warfare has changed little the manner in which wars are won. Since the beginning of history, intelligence, force of will, and guiding principles are the dominant factors in any campaign.
Therefore, it only stands to reason that the most vital battle any of us will ever face is the psychological battle, the battle within; for success in the mind will determine success in all other endeavors.
Unfortunately, very few people ever consider the importance of the mind war, let alone know how to defend themselves against psychological attack. As with any method of self-defense, constant training is required.
For the past century, at least in the United States, a subversive and secret cold war has been waged against the people in the form of psychological subjugation. This cold war is designed to weaken our resolve, our heritage, our self-belief, our confidence and our integrity in preparation for a “hot war” against our time-honored Constitutional rights. The power elite know well that the most effective strategy for victory in any battle is to convince your enemy to surrender before the fight even begins. Today, the American populace is being conditioned to lie down and die a mental death, to give up the inner war, so that when the outer war comes, they will already be defeated.
How To Win The War For Your Mind
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saturneptune
New Member
My premise is exactly correct, both Scripturally and Constitutionaly. For you to compare our governmental documents to Wurmbrand is way out of line. Sometimes from your posts, I wonder if you would know a Communist if he had the word printed on his or her forehead. It is obvious to you Scripture and the Constitution are tools to ensure an outcome that represents your warped right wing agenda. Right wing is NOT a synonym for conservative or Constitutional.
I base the Holy Spirit is a guide for each Christian based on solid NT doctrine. Get away from your computer for thirty seconds and look it up.
I think I can . . .
Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. . . Here rulers are defined. Nero was not a ruler, he was a terror to good works. Romans 13 does not command anyone to submit to tyranny.
No it isn't. It's not even close. You said I was arguing not to submit to a government because it wasn't "godly." You will not find that premise anywhere in any argument of mine.
Huh?
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I would say that's reasonable.
poncho
Well-Known Member
Question. How have we been rewarded for our submission to (unlawful) authority?
Here's a short list of the rewards.
• Warrantless domestic surveillance.
• The ability to search telephone calls, emails, financial matters especially involving foreign individuals, and medical records for people who are “suspected” of endangering the country.
• Color coded risk levels designed to keep citizens fearful of non-existent terrorists.
• Pre-emptive invasion of foreign countries.
• Committing U.S. forces to war without a declaration of war by Congress as mandated in the U.S. Constitution.
• Assassination of people on presidential kill lists.
• Extermination of “suspected” enemies by predator drones.
• Camera systems monitoring the movements of Americans in cites and streets across the United States.
• Torture of detainees in camps outside of the United States.
• The authority to indefinitely detain America citizens without trial.
• Executive orders giving the President the ability to unilaterally disregard the U.S. Constitution and take control of private industries.
• Use of drones to monitor the activities of American citizens.
• Allowing the very bankers that destroyed the worldwide economic system to blackmail the American taxpayers into handing them $700 billion.
• Not prosecuting one Wall Street criminal after the largest Ponzi control fraud in the history of the world.
• Cameras and listening devices on public transit and other public locations.
• Military exercises conducted in U.S. cities in order to condition the masses.
• Attempts to control and censor the internet through the introduction of the SOPA bill.
• The use of tragic mass murders by mentally defective young men on psychotropic drugs to disregard the 2nd Amendment and disarm American citizens.
• TSA thugs molesting little old ladies and young children to desensitize citizens to gestapo like tactics and treat them like criminals.
• Government partnering with Facebook, Apple and other corporate entities to monitor, censor, and report the activities of citizens to the authorities.
• The use of public schools to teach children what to think rather than how to think. Thought control is vital to an agenda of keeping the masses fearful and pliable.
• Government agencies (FBI, ATF) creating terrorist plots, luring young dupes into the plots, providing fake explosives, and then announcing with great fanfare they have foiled a terrorist plot.
• “See something, Say something” government media campaign designed to make citizens paranoid and fearful. source
The people of this country must regain a sense of responsibility for their lives and the lives of future generations. Enough people need to perceive they are being manipulated, controlled and used by the thought leaders and awaken from their narcissistic materialistic debt financed lives. Our culture has failed. The animosity and anger in the country is beginning to bubble over. The masses are beginning to realize they have been screwed. They haven’t figured out who to blame because they are still trapped in the Republican/Democrat false dogma. There is one Party putting on a show, as displayed this week with the fiscal cliff farce, as the government controlled media proclaimed victory because the status quo was maintained, nothing was cut, and $4 trillion was added to the National Debt. More people need to question and challenge the authorities. We must cast aside our willful ignorance of facts and accept the consequences of decades of bad decisions and delusions of grandeur. More government is not the answer. We must break free of the conditioning and mind control used to make us love our servitude and trust those in power.
Here's a short list of the rewards.
• Warrantless domestic surveillance.
• The ability to search telephone calls, emails, financial matters especially involving foreign individuals, and medical records for people who are “suspected” of endangering the country.
• Color coded risk levels designed to keep citizens fearful of non-existent terrorists.
• Pre-emptive invasion of foreign countries.
• Committing U.S. forces to war without a declaration of war by Congress as mandated in the U.S. Constitution.
• Assassination of people on presidential kill lists.
• Extermination of “suspected” enemies by predator drones.
• Camera systems monitoring the movements of Americans in cites and streets across the United States.
• Torture of detainees in camps outside of the United States.
• The authority to indefinitely detain America citizens without trial.
• Executive orders giving the President the ability to unilaterally disregard the U.S. Constitution and take control of private industries.
• Use of drones to monitor the activities of American citizens.
• Allowing the very bankers that destroyed the worldwide economic system to blackmail the American taxpayers into handing them $700 billion.
• Not prosecuting one Wall Street criminal after the largest Ponzi control fraud in the history of the world.
• Cameras and listening devices on public transit and other public locations.
• Military exercises conducted in U.S. cities in order to condition the masses.
• Attempts to control and censor the internet through the introduction of the SOPA bill.
• The use of tragic mass murders by mentally defective young men on psychotropic drugs to disregard the 2nd Amendment and disarm American citizens.
• TSA thugs molesting little old ladies and young children to desensitize citizens to gestapo like tactics and treat them like criminals.
• Government partnering with Facebook, Apple and other corporate entities to monitor, censor, and report the activities of citizens to the authorities.
• The use of public schools to teach children what to think rather than how to think. Thought control is vital to an agenda of keeping the masses fearful and pliable.
• Government agencies (FBI, ATF) creating terrorist plots, luring young dupes into the plots, providing fake explosives, and then announcing with great fanfare they have foiled a terrorist plot.
• “See something, Say something” government media campaign designed to make citizens paranoid and fearful. source
The people of this country must regain a sense of responsibility for their lives and the lives of future generations. Enough people need to perceive they are being manipulated, controlled and used by the thought leaders and awaken from their narcissistic materialistic debt financed lives. Our culture has failed. The animosity and anger in the country is beginning to bubble over. The masses are beginning to realize they have been screwed. They haven’t figured out who to blame because they are still trapped in the Republican/Democrat false dogma. There is one Party putting on a show, as displayed this week with the fiscal cliff farce, as the government controlled media proclaimed victory because the status quo was maintained, nothing was cut, and $4 trillion was added to the National Debt. More people need to question and challenge the authorities. We must cast aside our willful ignorance of facts and accept the consequences of decades of bad decisions and delusions of grandeur. More government is not the answer. We must break free of the conditioning and mind control used to make us love our servitude and trust those in power.
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