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Sunday Shopping!

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by SouthernBoy, May 8, 2005.

  1. The Undiscovered Country

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    The commandments are stated in the NT but in a totally different way. Instead of laws, they are set out as fruit arising from a love of God and indeed go beyond the originals. For the Sabbath, instead of a special day, Hebrews sets out that Chrisitnas should find their Sabbath-rest in a peace and trust in God's salvation through Jesus.
     
  2. David J

    David J New Member

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    Colossians 2:16-23 (NASB)
    16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
    17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
    18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
    19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
    20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
    21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
    22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
    23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

    We are not under the Law. Sunday is not the Sabbath therefore all who follows the law on the first day of the week just missed the Sabbath therefore breaking the law.
     
  3. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Personally, I do not celebrate a day over any other day. The Lord expects us to live for Him everyday. Whether someone shops or dines out on Saturday or Sunday is irrelevant. Does he worship the Lord or abandon the assembling of the saints to do these things.

    I personally do not shop or dine out on Sunday, and neither do I watch or participate in sports or other activities. That is my personal preference, and not my "law". To each his own.

    Some people work seven days a week. That's our modern world. How many who adhere to a Sabbath Saturday and travel more than a Sabbath's journey,,one-half mile on that day?

    I think my witness is clear attending services on Sunday, my Lord's Day.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. David J

    David J New Member

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    Good post brother Jim!

    It is a personal preference.

    David J.
     
  5. Kamoroso

    Kamoroso New Member

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    Exodus 20

    3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


    Personally, I worship all kinds of gods. As long as I worship God too. Its just a matter of personal preference.

    Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    Personally, I bow down to, and worship all kinds of images. As long as I bow down to God and worship his image also. Its just a matter of personal preference.

    7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

    Personally, I say what ever I want, when ever I want. Its no big deal to take the Lords name in vane. As long as I praise him sometimes too. Its just a matter of personal preference.

    8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Oh yea, this one has already been covered. I'll just quote. " Personally, I do not celebrate a day over any other day. The Lord expects us to live for Him everyday. " As long as I pick some day. Its just a matter of personal preference.

    12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

    Personally, I don't honor them all the time. Sometimes their down right annoying. There is no way that they deserve my respect all the time. As long as I give them honor on some special occasions. Its just a matter of personal preference.

    13Thou shalt not kill.

    Personally, I 'll kill if I have to. Sometimes there are good reasons to kill. As long as I don't kill any good people. I can figure out who they are. Its just a matter of personal preference.

    14Thou shalt not commit adultery.

    Personally I commit adultery if I feel the strong need to do so. As long as I don't really hurt anyone. Besides God will forgive me if I confess. Its just a matter of personal preference.

    15Thou shalt not steal.

    Personally, I think nothing of cheating the IRS out of some of my own money. If you have to you can steal. As long as you give God his tithe, and some offering out of what you steal. Its just a matter of personal preference.

    16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

    Personally, I lie when I need to. Everybody does. As long as I confess the truth about God, it will be OK. Its just a matter of personal preference.

    17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

    Personally, I covet whatever I wish. I mean, its just wanting something that belongs to someone else. No one else even knows about it. That is, other than God. He'll forgive me. Its just a matter of personal preference.

    Please forgive my sarcasm. It is not my intention to hurt anyone. Only to reveal the truth.

    If any one of the commandments has been reduced to the status of a personal preference, then all of them have. If you don't believe this about the other nine, then why would you believe it about the fourth? The commandments are commands, not requests. Either God is God, or you are. Which is it. The Devil decided that he was. All those who adapt this mind set, are his offspring.

    God is number one. Its not something he wants to be, or is trying to hold onto. It is what he is. God is, and there is no other. Apart from him there is nothing. Those who choose to be apart from him, by assuming his place, that is number one, will come to nothing. For they are not God, and never could be. We are the ones that strive to be number one, in this or that. If we attain it, then we must try to hold onto it. Of course we only can for a little while. There is always someone else who wants that position, we can never keep it forever. The Devil is the one who had the audacity to want to be THE #1. All those who reject God's authority are following in his footsteps.

    Isaiah 14 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

    I certainly want know part of this kind of mind set, do you?

    Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
     
  6. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
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    Let's go back over two of those commandments.

    13Thou shalt not kill.
    "No; I never killed anyone; but I can do the next best thing: be angry in my heart against my brother and call him names" Not actually hurting anybody, and the commandment doesn't say anything about it"

    14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    "Never actually slept with anybody either. I can look, though, and how much less is that hurting anybody".

    "See; I am doing so good at keeping the commandments to the letter!"

    But Jesus shows it is not about the "letter" (Matt.5), and Paul further elaborates on this in Romans and 2 Cor. (not one jot nor tittle of the letter would pass until the change of covenants be fulfilled). So yes; the devotion to God formerly associated to the Sabbath expands to every day. (of course, we cannot rest everyday). The Undiscovered Country explained it well.
    That is not what Jim and David were calling "personal preference", but rather the "observance" part of it, which Paul teaches in Rom.14.
    So enough accusations of "lawlessness" or whatever, already!
     
  7. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I agree with that, especially when we consider Romans 14:5-6 and Colossians 2:16.
     
  8. wtrsju

    wtrsju New Member

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    Kamoroso - It is sad that you would attack someone in that manner. You are implying that he is streching or changing God's law. I make no conclusions about his salvation, but I would imagine he (Jim1999) is a wonderful God fearing man and I am sure that I am not the only one offended by your implications.
     
  9. wtrsju

    wtrsju New Member

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    By the way am I sinning by studying for my college classes on Sunday's? or how about posting on BB? Just kidding guys.
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    #1. No Bible text says that any part of God's Word NOT repeated AFTER the Gospel, is abolished.

    #2. James 2 says that HE who is guilty of breaking ONE is guilty of breaking ALL.

    #3. The 3rd commandment is not repeated in the NT.

    #4. The 2nd and 4th commandment (Sabbath) have short snipptets repeated in the NT but not the entire commandment.

    #5. The TEN Commandments are given as an explicitly unique, distinct and separate UNIT of Law.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Is it your position that the NT authors argue AGAINST obedience to the Law of God written on the heart? Do you think they are saying that "Sin does not matter" and "rebellion is slave-master of the Christian"?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
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    No, that is what Keith's line of argumentation can be extended to from focusing on the Letter.

    BTW, "blasphemy", the breaking of the third commandment is condemned all throughout the NT.
    I'm sure whatever "snippet" of the 2nd comandment you are referring to clearly condemns idolatry.
    You see, it is NOT a "unique unit" anymore, but rather principles that hang on the unit of TWO commandments--love to God and neighbor. Just like the 613 hung on the 10, and detail precepts changed.
     
  13. hamricba

    hamricba New Member

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    #1- Bob, so should we be putting homosexuals and adulterers to death (Lev. 20)? I'm not saying Scripture is abolished. I'm saying the OT law was given to Israel (only). Yes, it reveals God to us and how He relates to humanity, but as Gentiles we are under the new covenant of Christ's blood. A mildly dispensational hermeneutic, but I believe it is more Scriptural.

    #2- So do we need to push for the execution of homosexuals in our time, to be faithful to God? In your current thinking, we are all guilty of not being faithful here. Are we also guilty of wearing clothes made of two different kinds of fabric? Is that binding on the church?

    #3- I would have to do more thorough research, but the honoring of the Lord's name is certainly implicit in the NT if not explicit.

    #4- Give a reference.

    #5- Substantiate your claim. Grammatically, you cannot separate the laws from the ordinances because of the Granville-Sharp rule which equate the two concepts.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Well you are right about Israel being a theocracy and that the CIVIL laws of a theocracy only apply to that theocracy.

    I am talking about the MORAL code -- God's OWN ten commandments -- spoken directly by God and recognized EVEN today as Law.

    The idea that killing "is ok if you are not a Hebrew" is never considered in all of scripture.

    And as for the 4th commandment being "MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27 -- Christ already said it.

    As for the 4th commandment applying in the "New heavens and new earth" - when From Sabbath to Sabbath ALL MANKIND comes before God to worship (Isaiah 66) God already said it.

    Using the civil laws of the theocracy as a back door to getting at God's own eternal Moral code (the Ten commandments) does not fit with the spirit of the New Covenant in which that Law is written "on the Tablets of the human heart" rather than just on tablets of stone.

    The point is - failure to find it "quoted" does not form a Biblical basis to "Abolish it".

    I have no doubt that the restriction applies to ALL OF TIME. The man-made-idea that "when not repeated it gets deleted" is simply a backdoor to escape some part of God's Word - it is not exegesis.

    [/quote]

    #4- Give a reference.
    [/quote]

    For which commandment? The 2nd? the 4th (Heb 4, Rev 14, Acts 14:15 (NASB shows the quote here)

    AS for your argument that when God's LAW is mentioned it must always include the Ceremonial laws -- the "LAw of God is ESTABLISHED" by our faith (Rom 3:31) and WRITTEN in our heart (Heb 8) on tablets of the human heart not just tablets of stone (2Cor 3).

    The UNIT of the TEN is SO distinct in scripture that Paul can say of the 5th commandment IN THAT UNIT that it is "THE FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6. This is not true "of all of the OT" just of the Ten Commandments.

    Obviously.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    As in the case of the 2nd commandment – quoted in the NT but only in part, so we find the 4th commandment quoted in part in the NT.

    [quote
    Acts 14:15 and saying, "Men, why are you doing these things? We are also men of the same nature as you, and preach the gospel to you that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, WHO MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM. (NASB shows the quote of Exodus 20) [/quote]

    God’s commandments endorsed by Christ –

    Made for mankind

     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    With all the hype about the “good news of NOT keeping God’s commandments” one begins to wonder what you would find if you just did an unrestricted search on the NT with the words “Keep Commandments”. Would it be 50/50 pro and against? Would the Bible list reasons why this is a bad thing 60% of the time, and reasons why it is good 40%??

    Or would it be 100% to zero? A complete shutout?

     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    A Baptist web site has published the text of D L Moody's sermon on the Ten Commandments at this link...

    http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

    I discovered this sermon in March 2005 and have really enjoyed the points D. L. Moody makes here.

    When Moody gets to the 4th commandment - he starts out the topic like this...

    What do you think about his position on this commandment?

    What do you think about his position on the Ten Commandments?

    What do you think about his "literal" acceptance of the "creation fact"?
     
  18. wtrsju

    wtrsju New Member

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    I have an honest question. A pastor works on Sunday. So are we complicit in our pastor sinning? In my time the only day I see my pastor take off is Mon.
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Christ said in the Gospels that the priests work hardest on His Holy Seventh-day memorial of creation - harder than on any other day, and yet are without sin.

    I think pastors fall under that umbrella when it comes to what God's commandment requires regarding rest vs what they are called to do in ministry on His Holy day - sanctified and set apart by Him as a day of Rest and Worship according to His Word.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. wtrsju

    wtrsju New Member

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    Thanks Bob.
     
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