Sunday Shopping!

Thanks Keith - always nice to get some useful references.

However the argument the Pope makes is similar to the one that Moody makes - arguing FOR the Ten Commandments while leaving the Sabbath commandment "open to edit" as needed by tradition.

Marcia takes the position that the entire 10 commandment code is nailed to the cross and abolished rather then written on the heart and estblished by our faith (Rom 3:31). Leaving us with just man's-tradition to justify Sunday Services but nothing like a divine command for rest and abstaining from work on that day.

That is an entirely different POV than most of your references would take.

Obviously my own reference to Moody has that same disconnect with Marcia's POV -- I am just wondering how far she is willing to take that gap.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Perhaps she should listen to the words of Christ himself regarding the traditions of man.

Mark 7 5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? 6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Sunday worship is a man made tradition that came about through the amalgamation of Sun worship, and Christianity. The word of God has nothing at all to say regarding the establishment of the first day of the week as a holy day. The vast majority of those claiming to be Christians, lay aside the commandment of God, in order to observe this man made tradition. It's establishment as a holy day, rests alone on the power and authority of the church of Rome. Those who submit to this false teaching, submit to the power of Rome. It is a question of worship. Who will you worship? God, or man? God has specified in his word, a particular day to set aside all else, and worship Him. The church of Rome has specified a certain day for you to set aside as the day it says that you should worship. Who will you obey? The choice is yours.

Romans 6 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Who will you obey?

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Let us examine the scriptures to see just exactly what it was that went to the cross. By doing so we will see that they do not refer to the law of God being abolished, but rather that which causes the enmity between mankind and the law of God, being abolished. Christ did not come to abolish the law, but rather to fulfill it ( Matt. 5:17 ). Christ is what all the ceremonial laws pointed to, therefore when He came and fulfilled them, they were no longer needed as a type of the real, that is the Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Christ also fulfilled the moral law. However, the scriptures clearly point out, that this was not for the purpose of doing away with the law, but rather for the establishment of the law within our own hearts.

Rom 8:1-4 "1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

So what did go to the cross, and what did it accomplish?

Eph 2:15-16 "15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"

The only time there is enmity between the law and those which it governs, is when the law is broken. For example, if I am driving down the road at 55 MPH, and that is the posted speed limit, then there is no enmity between me and the law. However, if I increase my speed to 70 MPH, then there is enmity between me and the law. I am at that time under the law, it is against me because I have broken it. If I am caught, there is only one way for me to get out of the situation, that is by paying the penalty that the law demands. The enmity between me and the law which has been broken will continue to exist until I pay the penalty which the law demands. Once the penalty is paid, the enmity is no longer applicable.

Paying the penalty of the law, does not change the law, but rather my standing in relation to the law. The law still exists, but I am no longer under it, that is to say the enmity between us is gone. This is what the above verses are referring to. Not that the law itself has been abolished, but rather that in Christ the penalty of the law has been met, therefore the enmity has been abolished.

Heb 2:16-18 "16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Christ came to earth and became one of us. He took upon Himself our sinful nature and flesh. In our flesh, he lived a life of perfect obedience to his Father. This life of obedience lead him directly to the cross, and those who desire to follow him will be lead to the same place. Christ was obedient unto death.

Phil 2:7-8 "7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Those who are in Christ, have been baptized into his death. Being dead in Christ they are free from the penalty of the law. In Christ, the penalty of the law has been paid for all of us. Those who choose to be in Him, no longer suffer the enmity that exists between sinners and the law, for that penalty has been paid. They are now to walk in newness of life, and are new creatures in Christ Jesus. This is not so they can continue to live in sin, but rather that they might live unto God ( Rom. 6:3-13 ).

Gal 4:4-5 "4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."

These things have not abolished the law, but rather have established them. Christ was made under the law, that he might save those who are under the law. The old testament prophets understood that Christ would not come to abolish, but rather to establish the law in our hearts.

Jer 31:31-33 "31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."


Bye for now. Your brother in Christ, Keith.

 

I think "opposition to D L Moody" is a little strong. I am not entirely in agreement with one thing you posted from him, that's all. I have actually never read anything by him that I know of. In fact, I did not even know who he was until about 12 yrs ago.

I am not going on record to say I "oppose" Christian leaders. I might have disagreements with them, but that is not "opposition" and how to observe Saturday or Sunday (depending on what you think the Sabbath is) is not something to divide over. My guidance is from the Bible, not Christian leaders. Unlike the SDA, we don't look to people to take absolute truth from as the SDA looks to Ellen White.

I posted Bible passages on the issue of observing days; we are not supposed to divide over it. You SDA guys are the ones making an issue of it.

Something that I do have issue with is a church that tells me if I worship on Sunday I will have the mark of the beast. But you conveniently do not address that.

 

My question to you about your "opposition to D. L. Moody" and "opposing all Christian leaders at that time who ALSO took his view on the 1o" is strictly confined to "D.L. Moody's same pro-Ten Commandment position" nothing more.

As already stated.

I am simply pointing out that they have a view of the Ten Commandments (all of them) that differs with your position and is very "very" similar to the one SDAs take today.

We would not "edit God's Word" when it comes to Christ the Creator's Sabbath commandment -- but other than that - we would be in agreement with these non-SDA sources on Christ the Creator's Ten Commandments still being ok to honor.

I think this is consistent with the New Covenant promise that the Law of God is to be "written on the tablets of the heart" and not merely external on tablets of stone as in the lost state.

In Christ,

Bob

 

D. L. Moody did not address that in his comments on the Ten Commandments or on the Sabbath. And I doubt that he would make the application of that part of the Law of God to the warning given in Rev 14 the way Adventists do.

However if you look at the text of Rev 14 it makes it clear that there is a contrast between the "Worhsip of Him who MADE the heavens and the earth the sea and the springs of water" (a quote of the unique language of the Sabbath commandment) -- and those that "worship" the beast and his image. The text explicitly shows that the issue is "worship" but does not point out the 4th commandment in any way other than simply quoting it outright.

Here Moody likens rebellion against this commandment to the rebellion of Samson and asks each Christian to evaluate whether or not they may in fact be in rebellion against this Command of Christ the Creator.

As James points out – he who is in violation of one – is in violation of all.

Again Moody shows this to be an issue of “obedience” in worship to God. He also makes the assignment James makes by claiming that to ignore this commandment is to “show contempt for God’s Law”

Obviously according to this text Moody was aware of the suggestion that God’s Law has some how been broken/abolished/ended or taken away and addresses the Bible problem with such a suggestion. His conclusion is that Christ the Creator’s Sabbath commandment is even more necessary today than in the Garden.

Here Moody addresses another suggestion along the same lines – that the Commandments of Christ the Creator remain – all except for the CREATION commandment calling for worship of creation’s God – the Creator of all mankind and reminding us of the Creator’s act in making us.

It is that same emphasis and focus that we see in Rev 14 “Fear God and Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the Earth the Sea and the springs of water”

Though Moody does not apply the Mark of the Beast aspect of Rev 14 to this topic he does point to its role in what he expects to lead to the ruin of the church and the nation.

In the quote above – Moody explores the suggestion that mankind will naturally “Worship every day:” even without a regular set 7th day of worship as commanded by Christ the Creator. He seems to have a point well made.

</font>[/QUOTE]In Christ,

Bob

 

The topic of this board is not the mark of the beast. However Marcia, thanks for the invite. Don't mind if I do.

Chapter 9


"And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
and he said with a loud voice," Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgement has come; and worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of waters."
And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality.'
And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand,
he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of his anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the Lamb.
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" (Rev. 14:6-12)

Here in these verses we are introduced to three different angels, each having a message to give to the world. The first angel admonishes us to fear God and give Him glory, and to worship Him who made heaven and earth and all. The second angel tells us that Babylon the great has fallen, this power that has made all the nations of the world drink the wine of the passion of her immorality. The third and final angel gives the warning against all those who would worship the beast. Then the apostle John tells us that the saints keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

The first and third angels are dealing with the subject of worship. As we have discussed in previous chapters, those who worship the beast will be those who live in the flesh and not in the Spirit. The main problem with those who live in the flesh is that they are not subject to the law of God nor can they be (Rom. 8:7). On the other hand the saints are those who keep the commandments by their faith in Jesus. That which makes the difference between those who worship God and those who worship the beast is the keeping of the commandments of God. Let us look at the message of these angels more closely and see if we can determine what part of the law of God is being broken that determines whom we worship.

The first angel's message - "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgement has come; and worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and springs of waters." This angel's message is to fear God, to give Him glory, to worship Him as the creator. Is there a commandment of God that deals with this very subject? Yes there is, Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.'

Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." (Ex. 20:8-11)

The words of this commandment tell us to do just exactly what this first angel has admonished us to do. The fourth commandment deals specifically with the worship of God by the setting aside of a full day for this very purpose. It also points out that it was God who created the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that are in them. The apostle is apparently quoting directly from this commandment when he admonishes us to fear and worship God. Do you think that he had a purpose in this?

The first angel's message directs our minds to the fourth commandment of God. Again, this commandment deals specifically with the worship of God and the remembrance of His creative power, it points out who God is and what His authority is as creator of all things. Do you think that it is just a coincidence that God brings our attention back to this commandment right before He warns us not to worship the beast and his image? This is the one commandment that the majority of Christians believe has been changed. Is it possible that by keeping or not keeping this commandment we could be choosing to worship God or the beast? The purpose of the beast is to get us to worship him. What better way for him to do that than to get us to forsake the day that God has set aside for us to worship Him and replace it with another. If Satan can get us to disregard one of God's commands and replace it with one of his own invention, then his purpose would be complete. He will have succeeded in getting us to commit the original sin, which he is the father of, that is, putting our own selves, our thoughts or interests above God's. Which is to put ourselves in God's place, first.

Is there any scriptural backing for the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, that is, from the seventh day of the week to the first day of the week? The answer is no. Not one of the prophets, or the apostles, or Christ himself ever made any reference to the fact that one of God's commandments would be changed. However, on the contrary, Christ himself established just the opposite.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished.
Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:17-19)

There is a place in scripture that speaks of one who thinks to change times and law.

"And he will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. But the court will sit for judgement, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the highest one; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him." (Dan. 7:25-27)

This power is the same power that the apostle Paul speaks of in 2 Thess. Chap. 2, he refers to him as the man of lawlessness or the man of sin. No doubt these two powers are the same, for they are both brought to their end by the coming of the Lord to set up His everlasting kingdom. They also both deal with lawlessness. It is noteworthy that this power thinks to change times and law. The Sabbath commandment is the only commandment that deals with a specific time.

No question about it, those who worship the beast will be breaking one of God's commandments while all the time thinking that they are worshipping God, as we have discussed in previous chapters. Let's take a closer look at this day and what it means to us. We know that it is a day to remember the creation of the world and to worship God as our creator. What else does the scripture say about this day.

"Therefore, let us fear lest, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it.
For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they hear did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
"As I swore in my wrath,
They shall not enter my rest,"
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For He has thus said somewhere concerning the seventh day, "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works:"
and again in this passage, "They shall not enter my rest."
Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
"Today if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts."
For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disobedience.
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of the soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
Let us therefore draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may find grace to help in time of need." (Heb. Chap. 4)

It is clear from this chapter that the Sabbath is not only a commemoration of the creation of the world, but it is a vital part of our redemption. It is a sign that we have entered into God's rest, we have ceased from our own labors (verses 9 & 10) and are allowing God to do His work within us. The Sabbath day is a day that we do this quite literally, as well as spiritually. On this day we restrain from the labor of our hands as well as all the cares and common needs of this life and devote ourselves to literal and spiritual rest in Christ.

"Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matt. 11:28-30)

The Sabbath is also a sign of the new creation within us, we are new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is by being in Christ on the cross that we are recreated. The old self dies and the new begins. This is entering God's rest, this is peace and assurance.

"Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." (2 Cor. 5"17)

By obeying God's commandment and observing the Sabbath we observe and commemorate our saving relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. We enter in to that rest in a way that we do not, and can not on other days of the week, for no other day was blessed and sanctified by God. The Sabbath is a sign that it is God who sanctifies us, and it is a major part of the sanctifying process.

"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.'" (Exo. 31:13)

Only God can make something holy. There is nothing we can do to bring about holiness in our lives, it is a gift from God. This gift is given to those who believe God's word, and act accordingly. It is our actions that reveal our faith, not our lip service. It is not possible to obey God without believing in his word. For, without faith, it is impossible to please God. This is another critical point of the Sabbath. A day, is just a day. Nothing, and no one, could make a day holy, other than God. This very thing he did. It is the only reason that we have a weekly cycle. The point is just this, is a day just a day, or is a day actually holy, if God pronounces it thus. This he did, do we believe him, or not? Will we act accordingly, or not?

There is nothing about the Sabbath day, in and of itself, that makes it appear any different than any other day. It is purely an act of faith to observe it. You either believe that the day is holy, because God said so, and act accordingly, or you do not. It is faith in the word of God that makes the difference. What is sanctification, but believing the word of God and acting accordingly.

On the Sabbath we have a full day to be spiritually and physically strengthened and nourished for the week ahead. Six days out of the week we have to deal with the world and all the problems of providing for our families and ourselves. At the same time we face temptation and have to do battle with the old man, looking to Christ and maintaining our dependence upon Him. Praise God that on the seventh day, by His command, we can drop all of these cares and concerns and give our full attention, and time, and devotion to God. It is He who strengthens us by the renewing of our minds and spirits in Christ Jesus.

Is it possible that this commandment, which is such a blessing to us from God, could be changed without any reference to that change in the scriptures? Even when Christ Himself testified to the continuity of His Law? Did Christ really come to earth and suffer and die for humanity because we had broken God's law, and then turn around and change God's law as soon as He had paid the penalty that we deserved? No, God's law has not changed, God's law cannot change, and that is why Christ had to suffer and die on our behalf. So that the law could be established in us who walk after the spirit and not the flesh (Rom. 8:4). This is why the man of sin does not change times and law, he only thinks to change times and law.

The first angel calls us back to the true worship of God by observing His holy Sabbath day. The third angel is warning us not to worship the beast power. Are people who go to church on Sunday really worshipping the beast? No, no one worships or receives the mark of the beast until the beast forces this form of worship on the world. There is no biblical reason to make the first day of the week the Sabbath or day of worship above others. Those who make Sunday the Sabbath are forsaking that which God commanded and doing that which God has not commanded.

I am not saying that those who make Sunday their Sabbath are worshipping the beast now, but they will be, when a law is passed commanding the same. Does the Sunday Sabbath fit the criteria for the mark of the beast? It is a day observed by most of the Christians in the world. There are already many laws pertaining to this day, they are referred to as blue laws. There is no command given in scripture for people to observe this day. Consequently, if there were a law passed forcing people to observe this day it would be a law commanding people to do that which God never commanded them to do as a form of worship.

I urge you to search the scriptures diligently, and prayerfully concerning the subject of the Sabbath. If a world wide form of government were to make and pass laws forcing all to worship God on the first day of the week who would be behind such a law? It could not be God for there is no command in scripture to do so. The whole question at the end of time will be who do we worship. Here we have before us two different days that have been set aside by the people in this world to worship God. There would be no better way for Satan to get people to worship him than by getting them to worship God on a day that God never commanded them to do so, a day that he has instituted. At the same time getting them to disregard the day that God has told them to put aside as His day. Those who worship on the Sunday Sabbath do not do so because God has commanded it, but only because they have chosen to do so. If a law were put forth commanding people to worship on this day, it would be commanding people to worship man rather than God. This is the original and only sin, the worship of self, putting ourselves first or in the place of God by replacing His will and desire for our lives with our own.

These two Sabbath days are completely opposed to each other. One represents entering into God's rest. This is salvation. The other represents the desire of humanity led on by Satan to do his own works in salvation. It is something that they perform in and of themselves, that is, apart from God, that is accounted among themselves as though it were righteous or holy. This is nothing more than to go the way of Cain. For he believed in God, and he desired, and did bring an offering to God, but he would not submit to God.

"1 Brethren, my hearts desire and my prayer for them is for their salvation.
2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
3 For not knowing about God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Rom. 10:1-4)

Those who are saved keep the law because it is Christ who works in and through them. He is the only one who ever kept the law, and the only one who ever will in you. Christians do not keep the law to be saved, but because they are saved. Those who would force people to worship in a way that God never commanded cannot be doing so because Christ is in them. Since it is not His law that they are enforcing, and it is not His methods that they are using. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. Anyone who would wish to force a law on people, whether it were God's or not, would have to be attempting to establish their own righteousness. This is the same mistake that the Jews made. If someone keeps the law of God, we cannot know for sure if they are keeping it in order to be saved, or if they are keeping it because they are saved. However, if someone is keeping a law that God never commanded, and forcing others to do the same, it can be for no other reason than legalism. Legalists obey in order to be saved. This is exactly what forced observance of the Sunday Sabbath would be, an attempt to establish self righteousness.

There is only one plan of salvation, there is only one way, and that is the way of the cross, total submission to God through His Son Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. "I urge you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship." (Rom. 12:1) Disregarding God in one of His commandments means disregarding all. The Sunday Sabbath is a monument of this mind set that originated in Satan. It represents well that which constitutes the mark of the beast. It brings all that adhere to it, to the form of worship which Lucifer instituted, and that is the worship of self above God. For the beast to force humanity to break any one of God's commandments would suffice as his mark. However, none so fittingly represents his mark as the breaking of the fourth, which deals specifically with who, how, and when we worship in Christ Jesus. It is Satan's counterfeit to the real thing and represents him and his mind set.

The Lord Jesus Christ came to earth as a man, one of us. All of His life He denied self and the desires of the flesh. He did only those things that were pleasing to His Father. This He did until it led Him to the cross and the sacrifice of His life. Jesus had entered into His Father's rest, He did not do his own labors, as a man, but allowed His Father's works to be done in Him. This is what He calls His followers to do also, and this is what the true Sabbath is a sign and commemoration of, as well as a vital part of.

Will Christians make the same mistake that most of the nation of Israel did? Will they seek to establish God's kingdom here on earth before it's God appointed time, and thereby reject Christ? Will they end up fulfilling the true interpretations of biblical prophecy because they themselves believe false ones, as the nation of Israel did? Will they really end up thinking that forced submission is okay, and end up persecuting Christ through His followers as the nation of Israel did in Christ and His apostles and followers then. Will Christians end up passing a law enforcing Sunday worship? The following quote is from the Popes APOSTOLIC LETTER DIES DOMINI.

"Therefore, also in the particular circumstances of our own time, Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy. In any case, they are obliged in conscience to arrange their Sunday rest in a way which allows them to take part in the Eucharist, refraining from work and activities which are incompatible with the sanctification of the Lord's Day, with its characteristic joy and necessary rest for spirit and body."

Time will tell.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

I'm sorry for those of you who think that your salvation still rests on works. Either we are redeemed by the blood of Christ or we are not. The implication of SDA teachings that I am not saved because I am not "keeping the law" goes against the teachings of the Bible.

I don't even know how we can have a discussion of Sunday shopping if you think the Sabbath is Saturday. According to the SDA teachings, then Christians worshiping on Sunday are condemned because they are not keeping the Sabbath, and speaking of shopping on Saturday seems ridiculously irrelevant.

 

I have never said that people who ignore Christ's Sabbath commandment are not saved - neither is that an SDA doctrine. In fact SDA doctrine explicitly teaches that those who are not keeping the 4th commandment are still saved.

(You don't actually have a quote in that statement so maybe it is just a feeling.)

In Christ,

Bob

 

According to the SDA teachings, then Christians worshiping on Sunday - instead of the 7th day are not keeping the Sabbath commandment of Christ.

IF you take Moody's "approach" to God's Law - of continuing to honor it - but editing the commandment and then "keeping it" in its "edited form" this thread makes sense for Sunday.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Genesis 2 1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

According to the verses above, the God who created this world, and everything in it, also blessed, and sanctified the seventh day, when he was finished creating. During the act of creation, when God spoke, the thing was done. Thus this world exists, and we, and all other living things have life. So also, the Lord blessed, and sanctified the seventh day at creation. He spoke, and the thing was done. From that time forward, the seventh day has been a holy day. These things were established at creation, and have not been undone. One may choose not to believe that God created the world, but this does not change the fact that he did. One may also believe that the seventh day is not a holy day, but this does not change the fact that God has made it so.

Exodus 20 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The fourth commandment is a reminder to the children of Israel, not to forget the day which God made holy at creation. Thus it says " Remember the sabbath day". It is a memorial of the gift of life from God to this entire world. One of it's purposes, is to remind us of who we are in relation to God. That we owe our all to Him.

John 1 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.................................
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus Christ is the God who created this world, and everything in it. He is the God who instituted the Sabbath at creation. This holy day was made thus by Him, for us. To disregard it, is to disregard Him.

Genesis 1 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

We were created in the image of God, and therefore in the image of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is that part of the Godhead, that created this world. Though, to be like the Son, is to be like the Father, and the Holy Spirit, for they are one. No one can separate them. Only for our salvation were they ever separated. It was for us, that the Son left the Father, and that the Father turned His back on the Son. Because of our sin, they were separated.

Colossians 1 12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Again, Jesus Christ created, and sustains all things. In Him all things consist, and come together, that is, are reconciled. He is before all things, and in Him, all the fullness of God dwells. Not only did He create all things, but after the fall of humanity, it was through Him that all were reconciled. If only they would care to accept this gift. Now our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is not only the one responsible for the creation of the world, but also for our recreation as new creatures in Christ Jesus. Through all of this, the seventh day remains the day which He blessed, and sanctified. Only now, it is not just a memorial of the creation of this world, but also of the creation of new creatures in Christ Jesus, unto salvation. He is not only our creator, but is our Lord and Savior, who has transformed us from created beings fallen into rebellion, into the literal sons, and daughters of God. Praise be His name.

Therefore do I rest in His works, and strive to ever cease from my own. I do partake of His Sabbath rest, not only on the day that He blessed and sanctified, but moreover, in Him who blessed and sanctified it. For only God can bless, and sanctify anything, let alone, a sinner such as myself. Therefore, I gladly obey His command concerning this day which He has sanctified, as a sign that it is He alone that sanctifies the sinner. For Christ in you, is the hope of glory.

Hebrews 4 1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The seventh day Sabbath is a sign of the rest spoken of in the above verses. It is observed strictly by faith in the word of God. It was put forth by God himself, as a sign, that He is the one who sanctifies. It is a symbol of entering into God's rest, and allowing His works to be performed within you. A sign that you have accepted His authority, and method of salvation.

The Sunday Sabbath is a sign of just the opposite. It cannot be observed by faith in God's word, for there is no command concerning it. It has not been put forth by God as a sign for anything, but rather by the Church of Rome, as a sign of her authority. It represents a lack of faith in God's word, in favor of a faith in the traditions of man. It represents a faith in the method of salvation which the Church of Rome promulgates, over that which the scriptures testify to. It represents the way of Cain, over the way of Abel. For though they both brought a sacrifice, only Abel's was by faith, and in accordance with God's command. Before it is over, all will choose. Is the word of God the authority whom you obey, or the Church of Rome?

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith