Temporary Salvationist 1-8

But James does not commit any wilful sin, even the knowing to do good and doing it not. -- Herb Evans

 

James_Newman]Matthew 5:19
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You tell me, Herb. Which commandments are the least of the commandments? Is it whatever little thing I don't think is important?

The fact that Jesus said THESE tells me that they have previously been referred to, so it is you that is accusing the Lord of not being specific. However the real point here is that these folk who break them are going to be in the kingdom as the lesser. Also, those that do and teach them will also be in the kingdom as the Greater. There is no third option as you Faustites teach. -- Herb Evans

Of course there is a third option, Herb. It is breaking the great commandments. If breaking the least commandments causes one to be least in the kingdom, what happens if you break the great commandments? Does that make you great in the kingdom?

That is odd, I did not see any such option in the passage that you quoted. I would think that the greater commandment breaker would be in the kingdom as even a lesser that the lesser commandment breaker, sorta like David, whose Davidic kingdom it is with Christ reigning. Did you invent that option? Or did Faust? -- Herb Evans

Quote:
Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The fact that the bible doesn't give you an absolute line is hardly an argument against the doctrine. I find it strange that you worry so much where the line is. If you think you may be too close, get closer to Jesus.

You don't even understand the proof text that you post. The righteousness of the Pharisees was self rightousness. Self rightousness must be eexceeded by Christ's righteousness, which is not of works but of grace both for heaven AND the kingdom. The absolute that I have is that I will go to heaven and later enter the kingdom, both of which have nothing to do with the greeat commandments or the least commandments. -- Herb Evans

The pharisees were guilty of devouring widows' houses, all the while pretending to be holy because they tithed their herbs, Herb. You could draw comparisons to someone who preached fiery sermons from the pulpit, but spent his off time getting massages from gay prostitutes. Is that man saved? Sure. Is that man going to be in trouble at the judgment seat? Surely.

Oh, you like logic and Faustite reasoning? So, you have nothing to say about the Pharisee's self righteousness that they went about to establish. You are going to ignore that to tell me some stories . . . right? -- Herb Evans

 

Thre question is not sinning; it is wilfully sinning, Mr. Evasive. -- Hreb Evans

 

James_Newman]Yes Hreb, sometimes I sin willfully. Does that give you cause to rejoice? I never said I had everything right. What can I do other than fall on my face and ask my Lord to forgive me?

Well you could renounce your sinful Faustite doctrine. That would go a long way. -- Herb Evans
1 John 1:9

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But we have no promise that we will be able to enter the kingdom when we have sins that are unconfessed.

Well, that is a good verse. But do you confess them all, every one?

Being of Lutheran background, I first thought I had to confess all my sins to keep saved. Your theory is but a step beyond that. Pray tell, what in the world does the kingdom have to do with 1 John 1:9? What verse tells us that you have to confess your sins to avoid being sent to hell fire or being excluded from the kingdom. 1 John 1:8 also says if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (even after we confess them). You have no promise that you will be avoid going to hell or avoid being excluded from the kingdom and go to hell if you do not confess them. -- Herb Evans[/B]

 

You can if you want to; I am not a Calvinist. Be my guest! -- Herb Evans

 

James_Newman]Matthew 5:19
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You tell me, Herb. Which commandments are the least of the commandments? Is it whatever little thing I don't think is important?

The fact that Jesus said THESE tells me that they have previously been referred to, so it is you that is accusing the Lord of not being specific. However the real point here is that these folk who break them are going to be in the kingdom as the lesser. Also, those that do and teach them will also be in the kingdom as the Greater. There is no third option as you Faustites teach. -- Herb Evans

Of course there is a third option, Herb. It is breaking the great commandments. If breaking the least commandments causes one to be least in the kingdom, what happens if you break the great commandments? Does that make you great in the kingdom?

That is odd, I did not see any such option in the passage that you quoted. I would think that the greater commandment breaker would be in the kingdom as even a lesser that the lesser commandment breaker, sorta like David, whose Davidic kingdom it is with Christ reigning. Did you invent that option? Or did Faust? -- Herb Evans

What a great rebuttal.

There is not anything to rebut, if you can't find it in the passage, and I am certainly not going to try to rebut Faustonian logic again with you, since Faust and I covered this before via e-mail. You are just his parrot. -- Herb Evans

Quote:
Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The fact that the bible doesn't give you an absolute line is hardly an argument against the doctrine. I find it strange that you worry so much where the line is. If you think you may be too close, get closer to Jesus.

You don't even understand the proof text that you post. The righteousness of the Pharisees was self rightousness. Self rightousness must be eexceeded by Christ's righteousness, which is not of works but of grace both for heaven AND the kingdom. The absolute that I have is that I will go to heaven and later enter the kingdom, both of which have nothing to do with the greeat commandments or the least commandments. -- Herb Evans

The pharisees were guilty of devouring widows' houses, all the while pretending to be holy because they tithed their herbs, Herb. You could draw comparisons to someone who preached fiery sermons from the pulpit, but spent his off time getting massages from gay prostitutes. Is that man saved? Sure. Is that man going to be in trouble at the judgment seat? Surely.

Oh, you like logic and Faustite reasoning? So, you have nothing to say about the Pharisee's self righteousness that they went about to establish. You are going to ignore that to tell me some stories . . . right? -- Herb Evans

So what you are saying is that you believe a saved man can willfully flirt with drugs and homosexuality and have nothing to fear at the judgment seat of Christ?

That is your straw man. He must give account at the judgment seat of Christ, but if he is saved by the blood of Christ, he will never experience hell fire nor will he be killed at the judgment seat nor will he get stripes at the judgment seat as you Faustites teach. -- Hreb Evans

Or how about if I start conning old lady's out of their savings, is that OK since I am saved and am going to inherit the kingdom regardless of what I do? Is that what you teach Herb?

Actually, that has happened with a good friend of Joey Faust in the UBF. I don't like the preacher con, but if he is saved, he has inherited the kingdom. Salvation is the criteria not how much bad you have done or how much good you have done.-- Herb Evans

 

Originally Posted by Herb Evans
You can if you want to; I am not a Calvinist. Be my guest! -- Herb Evans

And how do you suppose that you can reconcile this view with these scriptures?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Simple, I do not have to reconcile these scriptures. It is not talking about the righteous; it is talking about the unrighteous. You convenienyly left off 1 Cor. 6:11.

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. The Christian has Christ's righteousness and is no longer the unrighteous of whom the scriptures speak. I have already been translated into the kingdom of His dear son upon salvation. I was those things; I am no longer, because I am washed. Amen! Thank you Jesus! Praise de Lawd! Does I have a witness? -- Hreb Evans

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

How can a Christian do the works of the flesh and inherit the kingdom of God, Herb?


I never planned on my flesh inheriting the millennial kingdom. My soul, spirit, and NEW SINLESS BODY will inherit the millennial kingdom. The born again Christian does not sin and cannot sin. His flesh can and does, but flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. -- Herb Evans

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

It is very simple, the Overcomers' Cult has two plans of salvation. One for heaven and one for the millennial kingdom. The catch is that you don't go to heaven if you are going to be excluded from the kingdom. It is a Go to Hell*, do not pass Go, Do not collect $ 200 proposition. -- Herb Evans

*Note: some ME's go to Outer Darkness, wherever that is at

 

Herb Evans does not teach that it does not matter how you live. You have misrepresented me. Being saved is one thing. Living it is another. -- Herb Evans

 

James_Newman]Now you are just confusing the imputed righteousness of Christ, which will justify you on the last day, for practical righteousness, without which no man will see the Lord.

No! It is you that confuse the Lord's imputed righteousness by limiting it. You can live like the devil and still ultimately be saved by your Gospel, but you can't live like the devil and enter the Kingdom. What a crock! -- Herb Evans

1Jo 3:7-8
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

A believer doing the works of the devil is not righteous. Can I get a witness?

Absolutely not! Even Lot was righteous positionally. But again you leave off two verses.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Are you a child of God or a child of the devil. If you are a born again child of God, YOU CANNOT SIN, AND YOU DON'T SIN, Go ye and learn what that meaneth. -Man, you really bombed out on that one. READ THE CONTEXT and renounce your heresy! - Herb Evans

Unless you are walking in the spirit in this life, your new sinless body will have to wait until the great white throne. You're starting to sound like a gnostic.

Another pontifcation. That is Faust talk, for he likes to compare folks with Gnostics. You are sounding more and more like a lost man. You do not have a shred of scripture for this heretical statement. -- Herb Evans