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Thanksgiving and its Calvinist/Arminian Roots
- Thread starter 1689Dave
- Start date
How in the world did you get that from what I posted?
Again:
The violent attack against English Pilgrim James Chilton was perpetrated by a gang of Reformed partisan youths (they mistook him and his daughter for Arminians, whom they were targeting that Sabbath):
Pilgrims in Leiden • Pilgrim Records from the Leiden Archives • affidavit by Pilgrim James Chilton • A.C. Paedts Record Group 506, call no. 180, page 239; 239 v; 240r.
"1619, April 30...Statement made by James Chilton (M), about 63 years old, living in Leiden in an alley on the Langebrug, past the Diefsteeg, and Angel Chilton, about 22 years old, his daughter, at the request of the Leiden Remonstrant Brethren, concerning an outbreak of rioting involving some youngsters on Sunday April 28, 1619. In a courtyard at the Langebrug the boys, about twenty in all, had shouted slogans directed at Arminians believed to be meeting there. A heavy stone thrown by one of the rioters had hit James Chilton’s head and injured the latter so seriously that he had had to consult Jacob Hey, the city surgeon, for treatment."
Sick!
Not really anymore. It was established by Abraham Lincoln as the last Thursday in November and changed by Franklin Delano Roosevelt to the fourth Thursday in November to accommodate retail interests. Leftists and vegans say that it is bad for climate change.
Reliable to you not to me. This is reliable to me.
Puritan
PU'RITAN, n. [from pure.] A dissenter from the church of England. The puritans were so called in derision, on account of their professing to follow the pure word of God, in opposition to all traditions and human constitutions.
Hume gives this name to three parties; the political puritans, who maintained the highest principles of civil liberty; the puritans in discipline, who were averse to the ceremonies and government of the episcopal church; and the doctrinal puritans, who rigidly defended the speculative system of the first reformers.
PU'RITAN, a. Pertaining to the puritans, or dissenters from the church of England.
Frm Websters dictionary.
Does this back up the fact that there flight to America was because of the church of England?
uritan migration to New England (1620–1640)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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This article is about Puritan migration of the 1640s. For other uses of the term Great Migration, see Great Migration (disambiguation).
The Puritan migration to New England was marked in its effects in the two decades from 1620 to 1640, after which it declined sharply for a time. The term Great Migration usually refers to the migration in this period of English Puritans to Massachusetts and the West Indies, especially Barbados. They came in family groups rather than as isolated individuals and were motivated chiefly by a quest for freedom to practice their Puritan religion.[1]
Town sign for Hingham, Norfolk, England showing Puritans who left to found Hingham, Massachusetts
Context
Further information: James I of England and religious issues
King James I of England made some efforts to reconcile the Puritan clergy who had been alienated by the lack of change in the Church of England. Puritans embraced Calvinism (Reformed theology
If you read Bradford, primary reasons for deciding to leave Holland were the lack of opportunity for the refugees — they were forced into menial labor for the most part and did not assimilate into the Dutch economy — and they worried that their young people were assimilating into the less strict Dutch culture — "Some became soldiers, others took upon them far voyages by sea, and others some worse courses tending to dissoluteness and the danger of their souls, to the great grief of their parents and dishonor to God."
The Dutch culture still is "less strict."
There is quite a bit of difference between “pilgrim” and “Puritan.”
Basically, even in England, Pilgrims were never at rest. Puritans were not that well favored toward them as some would present in history books. More often the Separatist huldren at schools were ostracized and wounded.
The “Separatists” were more often ostracized, and persecuted because they refused to be associated with the C of E by those that wanted to “purify” it.
When the Puritans arrived at Massachusetts, they ruined the working relationship the Pilgrims had with the natives, and much damage was done to the ruling and social structure in the area established by the compact.
Sometime later, Roger Williams (associated for a time with anabaptists and sometimes considered the organizer of the first truly Baptist Church in America, removed himself from both the Boston and Plymouth places. He had these basic views:
Land was to be purchased from Native Americans
Freedom of religion and the expression
Freedom of the press and speech
He purchased Rhode Island from the natives, established and had a great number the Baptist congregations in the land, and although he left “Baptist” he remain true to both the ordinances of the Baptist’s and the Calvinistic teaching.
Folks need to remember that Puritans were never friendly toward Baptist’s, but modern history pushes folk like Keach, Williams, Bunyan and others who were Baptist Separatists into that political/economic group who didn’t separate but wanted to purify.
Sort of like the vast majority of SBC folks who would rather try to purify rather then separate from what is an ever more failing system.
Basically, even in England, Pilgrims were never at rest. Puritans were not that well favored toward them as some would present in history books. More often the Separatist huldren at schools were ostracized and wounded.
The “Separatists” were more often ostracized, and persecuted because they refused to be associated with the C of E by those that wanted to “purify” it.
When the Puritans arrived at Massachusetts, they ruined the working relationship the Pilgrims had with the natives, and much damage was done to the ruling and social structure in the area established by the compact.
Sometime later, Roger Williams (associated for a time with anabaptists and sometimes considered the organizer of the first truly Baptist Church in America, removed himself from both the Boston and Plymouth places. He had these basic views:
Land was to be purchased from Native Americans
Freedom of religion and the expression
Freedom of the press and speech
He purchased Rhode Island from the natives, established and had a great number the Baptist congregations in the land, and although he left “Baptist” he remain true to both the ordinances of the Baptist’s and the Calvinistic teaching.
Folks need to remember that Puritans were never friendly toward Baptist’s, but modern history pushes folk like Keach, Williams, Bunyan and others who were Baptist Separatists into that political/economic group who didn’t separate but wanted to purify.
Sort of like the vast majority of SBC folks who would rather try to purify rather then separate from what is an ever more failing system.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
The Pilgrims’ pastor, John Robinson, disputed with the Arminians, emphasizing God's Providence. The Pilgrims believed they were chosen for salvation as English Israelites, like the Chosen People leaving Egypt. They were confident that they had resisted the Arminian threat, but felt that the Dutch had been corrupted by the Arminian outlook. Arminianism was all round them. It was therefore proposed that they should leave Leiden. But where should they go this time? There was no more tolerant society in Europe than the Netherlands. There was talk of the New World, but the high seas and the rumours of Indians, wild beasts and a wilderness awaiting them filled all with foreboding, even terror. But as Pilgrims they were living according to God’s will, and if God willed that they should leave their Dutch habitat now that it had been polluted with Arminianism, then they must trust that God would steer them through all perils.
The Secret Founding of America: The Real Story of Freemasons, Puritans, and the Battle for the New World
by Nicholas Hagger
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
More on this;
The Pilgrims’ pastor, John Robinson, disputed with the Arminians, emphasizing God's Providence. The Pilgrims believed they were chosen for salvation as English Israelites, like the Chosen People leaving Egypt. They were confident that they had resisted the Arminian threat, but felt that the Dutch had been corrupted by the Arminian outlook. Arminianism was all round them. It was therefore proposed that they should leave Leiden. But where should they go this time? There was no more tolerant society in Europe than the Netherlands. There was talk of the New World, but the high seas and the rumours of Indians, wild beasts and a wilderness awaiting them filled all with foreboding, even terror. But as Pilgrims they were living according to God’s will, and if God willed that they should leave their Dutch habitat now that it had been polluted with Arminianism, then they must trust that God would steer them through all perils.
The Secret Founding of America: The Real Story of Freemasons, Puritans, and the Battle for the New World
by Nicholas Hagger
Also;
The Pilgrims and Plymouth Colony:1620
During the later years in Leiden, their beliefs met some opposition and even heated debates at the University of Leiden from other groups such as the one led by the Arminians. By the last year there, the Pilgrims found themselves ridiculed and sometimes physically assaulted by opponents. In fact, James Chilton was stoned by a group of youths and nearly lost his life. The Pilgrim fathers "...therefore thought it better to dislodge betimes to some place of better advantage and less danger, if any such could be found." In the end, they concluded it was time to live as a distinct body by themselves under the Government of Virginia. Pastor John Robinson and the elders began to seek a refuge for the entire congregation.
Also;
Leiden American Pilgrim Museum
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is owned by the city of Leyden = Arminian version of the story.
= Church history is more reliable.
The Pilgrims’ pastor, John Robinson, disputed with the Arminians, emphasizing God's Providence. The Pilgrims believed they were chosen for salvation as English Israelites, like the Chosen People leaving Egypt. They were confident that they had resisted the Arminian threat, but felt that the Dutch had been corrupted by the Arminian outlook. Arminianism was all round them. It was therefore proposed that they should leave Leiden. But where should they go this time? There was no more tolerant society in Europe than the Netherlands. There was talk of the New World, but the high seas and the rumours of Indians, wild beasts and a wilderness awaiting them filled all with foreboding, even terror. But as Pilgrims they were living according to God’s will, and if God willed that they should leave their Dutch habitat now that it had been polluted with Arminianism, then they must trust that God would steer them through all perils.
The Secret Founding of America: The Real Story of Freemasons, Puritans, and the Battle for the New World
by Nicholas Hagger
Also;
The Pilgrims and Plymouth Colony:1620
During the later years in Leiden, their beliefs met some opposition and even heated debates at the University of Leiden from other groups such as the one led by the Arminians. By the last year there, the Pilgrims found themselves ridiculed and sometimes physically assaulted by opponents. In fact, James Chilton was stoned by a group of youths and nearly lost his life. The Pilgrim fathers "...therefore thought it better to dislodge betimes to some place of better advantage and less danger, if any such could be found." In the end, they concluded it was time to live as a distinct body by themselves under the Government of Virginia. Pastor John Robinson and the elders began to seek a refuge for the entire congregation.
Also;
Leiden American Pilgrim Museum
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is owned by the city of Leyden = Arminian version of the story.
= Church history is more reliable.
Last edited:
There you go folks, what the edicts of the Synod of Dort really portended was a boom in Arminianism's influence in the Netherlands.
Huh?
So why are you posting stuff by Nicholas Hagger ???
his bio:
A Mystic Way: A Spiritual Autobiography by Nicholas Hagger...traces the author’s mystic journey from his awakening in 1950s Oxford, through a period of purgation in 1960s Iraq and Japan, where he began to discover himself as a poet, to a Dark Night in Libya and then a month of profound mystic illumination in London in 1971, and eventually to a metaphysical outlook and the unitive vision that shines through his poetry, his unified view of history and his philosophy of Universalism."
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
The Arminians circumvented Dordt. Arminius taught Calvinism for an income. But taught his theory on off hours. Leyden was crawling with Arminians when the Pilgrims fled from their doctrine and persecution.
nbnbooks.com/book/9781785358470-king-charles-the-wise
King Charles the Wise: The Triumph of Universal Peace
by Nicholas Hagger
Publisher: O-Books
"Minerva’s vision of a Universalist World State as the UK’s, EU’s and world’s way forward at the coronation of King Charles III "
Oh brother!
King Charles the Wise: The Triumph of Universal Peace
by Nicholas Hagger
Publisher: O-Books
"Minerva’s vision of a Universalist World State as the UK’s, EU’s and world’s way forward at the coronation of King Charles III "
Oh brother!
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
An outsider is more objective even though he agrees with church history on the matter.
Perhaps we should all remember that life under either Pilgrim or Puritan rule was not easy.
My opinion is that:
What pagan idolatry we pass off as good worship would not be tolerated by either.
The standards they held for scholarship and accountability far exceeded any found in modern society.
The personal hygiene differences between them and us would have chased us off.
My opinion is that:
What pagan idolatry we pass off as good worship would not be tolerated by either.
The standards they held for scholarship and accountability far exceeded any found in modern society.
The personal hygiene differences between them and us would have chased us off.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
More Info;
Economic hardship [persecution], fears that their children were becoming too Dutch [Arminian], and concern about their neighbors’ religious laxity encouraged some congregants to contemplate a further move; in 1620 roughly one-third of them sailed to America. Having signed the Mayflower Compact aboard ship on 11 November, the Pilgrims went ashore on Cape Cod and, after several exploratory expeditions, established their permanent colony at Plymouth. [Brackets mine based on additional study]
The Oxford Encyclopedia of American Cultural and Intellectual History:
Economic hardship [persecution], fears that their children were becoming too Dutch [Arminian], and concern about their neighbors’ religious laxity encouraged some congregants to contemplate a further move; in 1620 roughly one-third of them sailed to America. Having signed the Mayflower Compact aboard ship on 11 November, the Pilgrims went ashore on Cape Cod and, after several exploratory expeditions, established their permanent colony at Plymouth. [Brackets mine based on additional study]
The Oxford Encyclopedia of American Cultural and Intellectual History:
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
More detail;
Robinson’s theology was an extension of John Calvin and William Ames. The Pilgrims, through Robinson, became the inseparable link between Calvin’s theology and America’s liberty – all based on the character necessary for maintaining self-government as taught in the Bible.
The Legacy of Pastor John Robinson - Plymouth Rock Foundation
Robinson’s theology was an extension of John Calvin and William Ames. The Pilgrims, through Robinson, became the inseparable link between Calvin’s theology and America’s liberty – all based on the character necessary for maintaining self-government as taught in the Bible.
The Legacy of Pastor John Robinson - Plymouth Rock Foundation
Unfortunately, so very many had to be left behind because of the Speedwell’s unseaworthiness.
But, that too shows the Providence of God, for because of delay, they did not arrive in Virginia, but much farther north.