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Featured The Adoption

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Jun 26, 2020.

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  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    We are Predestined to Adoption . When is the Adoption ? According to Romans 8 it is not Predestined to be saved its ....
    22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
    23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for the ADOPTION, to wit, the redemption of our body.
    so if we are only in Him when we believe . This means Ephesians 1 and Romans 8 are not saying that we are chosen to be saved . It's simply saying after we believe and are sealed by the Holy spirit until the day of redemption then we are predestined to the Adoption which only happens when we receive glorification. We only receive the SPIRIT OF adoption when we believe . This is the ' earnest until the purchased possession . We become a child of God only in the sense of all the blessings of a full grown son .But we await the full manifestation of the sons of God .
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

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    1. Romans 8:15
      For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

    2. Romans 8:23
      And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

    3. Romans 9:4
      They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.

    4. Galatians 4:5
      to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

    5. Ephesians 1:5
      he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
    BibleGateway - Keyword Search: adoption
     
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  3. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    if the very same chapter just before the mention of Predestination you ignore
    23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.
    can you read there just before the so called ' golden chain of redemption '
    notice the Adoption is something we are waiting for . So it's quite clear that we only receive the spirit of adoption .
     
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  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    3And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
    24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
    25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
    26¶ Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
     
  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    The SPIRIT OF ADOPTION IS NOT THE !!!! ADOPTION..things different are not the same .
     
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  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    Ephesians 1 .5 we are predestined to future Adoption ( The spirit of adoption is not the Adoption , the redemption of the body . You dont have your new body now. This is when we recieve the adoption . So God has promised all believers in Him will receive glorification. it cannot fail . ( eternal security. ) But we are clearly not in Jesus before we believe..Calvernism teaches that the adoption all happens whilst we are still in our sinful bodies which clearly is un biblical
    . The fact that you have quoted Roman's 9 .4 shows you dont understand.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We already are seated in heaven with Lord Jesus, as per God seeing us!
     
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  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    Not physically are we ? The Adoption that we are predestined to is the glorified body . This is the manifestation of the sons of God . Do you have a sinful body still or not ?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We have already been adopted as children of God, but does not yet appear as what we shall be once glorified!
     
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  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    Yes we have not recieved the Adoption . Exactly . So we are not predestined to THE adoption until after we believe the Gosepl then we are predestined to this future adoption which biblically it is referred to as the redemption of the body . So no one is predestined to be saved. It's simply God predestined those that are saved to something that will happen in the future .
     
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
     
  12. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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  13. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    [
    It is part of it.
    There are two parts of the adoption, with part 1 being experienced when a person believes on Christ, and part 2 being experienced at the first resurrection.
    I agree, to an extent.

    I see that the purpose of the Holy Ghost's sealing of someone ( Ephesians 1:13 ) is as the Spirit of the promise of that adoption...
    The seal that God has put on someone showing that they are an adopted son or daughter;
    Not that they "will be".

    " For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
    ( Romans 8:14-15 ).

    We have received the Spirit of adoption, and we will be fully adopted, physically, some day:

    " And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. " ( Romans 8:23 ).
     
    #13 Dave Gilbert, Jun 28, 2020
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  14. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 1:4-5 clearly states that the believer was chosen in Christ from before the foundation of the world:

    " according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"


    They were predestinated to that adoption, and that adoption takes place in two phases.
    This was all done according to the good pleasure of His will...

    Not ours.
     
  15. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    With respect, it isn't clear in that manner to me.
    Regardless of what John Calvin may have taught ( and I couldn't care less what he taught, as God's word is my authority ), I see this when I read the Scriptures:

    There are two phases of the adoption...
    The spiritual side and the physical side.

    Believers are predestined to both, so to me, the adoption happens when we are still in our physical bodies, and is completely finished when we received our glorified bodies that are free from the taint of sin.

    That is why believers groan within ourselves...
    Because we are looking forward to never sinning again.:)
     
    #15 Dave Gilbert, Jun 28, 2020
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  16. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that the believer was chosen to salvation through two things...
    Their being sanctified by the Spirit, and their belief of the truth ( which is given to them in the behalf of Christ, see Philippians 1:29 ).
    Those two things are the result of the work of God ( John 6:29, Ephesians 2:10, Philippians 1:6, James 1:18 ), not a cooperative work between us and the Lord.

    Ephesians 1:4 says that they were chosen "in Him" from the foundation of the world.
    We as God's elect were chosen to be placed within the body of Christ from the foundation of the world...
    It was determined then, and carried out in real time within our lives.

    Romans 8:28-30 states that only the foreknown will ever experience the benefits of being predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, being called by the Gospel, being justified and then being glorified.
    So, unless one is foreknown by God, one cannot be part of the rest.

    Only those given to Jesus Christ by the Father will come to Him ( John 6:39, John 6:65 ), and only those given to the Son by the Father will ever receive the gift of eternal life ( John 17:2 ).
    Therefore, unless one is chosen by God and caused to approach Him ( Psalms 65:4 ), then one is not blessed of God by His grace.

    They are still in their sins and awaiting His judgment.

    To me, you're making a person's salvation dependent upon a combination of their own actions and God's, and then God predestinating them to all the rest.
    I'm sorry, but I don't see this when I read the Scriptures.:(

    Also, the only Man I follow is Jesus Christ and him alone ( John 10:1-5, John 10:27 ).
    I don't read the writings of prominent "Calvinists" in order to help me to understand the Scriptures, Barry.
    I read His word, as it is all-sufficient for me and always will be.
    If I run across something in His word that I do not understand, I ask Him to show me and He has never let me down...
    The more I study, the more He shows me.

    You are of course, under no compulsion to believe me... but calling me and others like me "Calvinists" is not accurate, as we do not follow John Calvin nor his writings.
    We follow Jesus Christ, and always will.


    I wish you well, sir, and may He bless you with many good gifts in the days to follow.:)
     
    #16 Dave Gilbert, Jun 28, 2020
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  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    27¶Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
    When we respond to the Gosepl this is not a work . So it's silly to say this is cooperative in salvation . I really dont understand this view ?
     
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    One of the major focuses of the New testament is ' Glorification ' ..Roman's 8 in fact states that the whole of creation is groaning and waiting for this day . Book after book in the New testament labours on the final aspect of our salvation. When corruption takes on corruption. When we will see him face to face . When we will no longer be in this body of death . The redemption of the body . The adoption . This is what it's all about . none of this has happened yet , but is Guaranteed for every born again child of God .. It's so clear that predestination is only referring to this .
     
  20. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Active Member

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    You are putting the cart before the horse .you believe that you were in Christ before you were in Christ which makes no sense .
     
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