The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ? 10

[Brightfame52]

BF you keep saying the same thing and in doing so you disagree with God. You are trusting what some man has told you the bible say and I am showing you what the bible says.

And Im going to keep saying it, to declare that Christs death merely made Salvation possible, is the height of Blasphemy !

 

[Silverhair]

And Im going to keep saying it, to declare that Christs death merely made Salvation possible, is the height of Blasphemy !

So you just willfully deny scripture, got it. So we are just to ignore anything that you post as they are just you ideas and are not based the bible.

 

[37818]

1 John 2:2, ". . . And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. . . ."

1 John 4:10, ". . . Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. . . ."

2 Corinthians 11:3, ". . . But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. . . ."

1 John 5:10, ". . . He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . . ."

The lost do not understsand or believe Christ redeemed them.

2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ."

Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."

 

[Brightfame52]

So you just willfully deny scripture, got it. So we are just to ignore anything that you post as they are just you ideas and are not based the bible.

I wilfully deny blasphemy that denies that Christs Death didnt redeem the elect He died for.

 

[Silverhair]

I wilfully deny blasphemy that denies that Christs Death didnt redeem the elect He died for.

Actually His death redeemed no one. It is only by the risen Christ that one can be redeemed.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

You have placed your trust in Christ on the cross not the risen Christ.

 

[37818]

Actually His death redeemed no one. It is only by the risen Christ that one can be redeemed.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

You have placed your trust in Christ on the cross not the risen Christ.

His redemption was finished on the cross, if not He would not have risen! Per John 19:28. Romans 4:24-25, 1 Corinthians 15:17.

 

[Silverhair]

His redemption was finished on the cross, if not He would not have risen! Per John 19:28. Romans 4:24-25, 1 Corinthians 15:17.

Yes He paid the full price at the cross but if He had not risen we would still be in our sin.

As we see in Rom 4:25 "He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification." It is because of ones faith in the risen Christ that God saves us. Christ finished the work as the worlds propitiation for sin but if we individually do not trust in the risen Christ we are still lost. Which is what Paul was pointing out in 1Co 15:17 "and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins." Christ's death on the cross made salvation possible for all but only those that believe in Him will be saved.

If Christ's death on the cross saved all that He died for then we would have universal salvation. 1Jn 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world". Christ was the sacrifice that was offered to God to turn aside His wrath so that He could be gracious / merciful; and ready to forgive the sins of those that trust in His risen Son. Rom 5:10 "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

 

[37818]

Yes He paid the full price at the cross but if He had not risen we would still be in our sin.

Wrong, He received full payment on the cross. He would not have risen had He not received the payment.

 

[Brightfame52]

Actually His death redeemed no one. It is only by the risen Christ that one can be redeemed.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

You have placed your trust in Christ on the cross not the risen Christ.

More horrendous Blasphemy against the death of Christ, saying His Death redeemed no one Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Silverhair]

Wrong, He received full payment on the cross. He would not have risen had He not received the payment.

Did I say He did not provide full payment for the sin of mankind, NO. Note my words "Yes He paid the full price at the cross" So what is wrong?

 

[Silverhair]

More horrendous Blasphemy against the death of Christ, saying His Death redeemed no one Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

@Brightfame52 are you using "redeemed" to indicate "purchased" or as "saved"? I have understood from your previous posts that you are using "redeemed" in the since of saved. Correct me if I am wrong. In prior posts I should have used "saved" rather than "redeemed" as it would not have lead to this confusion.

We are "redeemed" purchased by the blood of Christ but no one is "saved" unless they personally trust in the risen Christ. If you had looked at the context of Titus 2:14 it would have helped you in understanding the text.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Tit 2:12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,
Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
So we see that salvation is available to all men, redemption was made for all men, but only those that trust in the risen Son will be saved. 1Co 15:17 "And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!"

So when we see in Tit 2:14 " who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed,... " We know that of all those redeemed / purchased by His blood these are the ones that have personally trusted in Christ Jesus for their salvation.

We see the same thing in Rev 5:9. Christ purchased all of mankind but only those that personally trust in Him for their salvation will be saved.

 

[37818]

Did I say He did not provide full payment for the sin of mankind, NO. Note my words "Yes He paid the full price at the cross" So what is wrong?

How He made full payment, is He received the wage on our behalf. So we can have the gift, per Romans 6:23.

 

[Silverhair]

How He made full payment, is He received the wage on our behalf. So we can have the gift, per Romans 6:23.

You have completely misunderstood that verse. The wages for our sin is our death, lost in hell for eternity. Christ was the propitiation for our sin. He was the payment for our sin so that we who trust in Him would not have to. He did not get paid for our sin as you seem to think.

The options are placed before us and the choice is ours alone, we try to pay for our sins ourselves - result death or we believe that Christ through His finished work of propitiation has so dealt with sin that God can show mercy to sinners who place their trust in the risen Christ Jesus.

We may summarize the verse by noting, with Lloyd-Jones, its three contrasts:
the master that is served—sin versus God;
the outcome of that service—death versus eternal life; and
the means by which this outcome is attained—a “wage” earned versus a gift received. NIC nt

 

[37818]

Christ was the propitiation for our sin. He was the payment for our sin so that we who trust in Him would not have to. He did not get paid for our sin as you seem to think.

He is the propitiation by receiving death on our behalf. He had finished it, per John 19:28.

 

[Silverhair]

He is the propitiation by receiving death on our behalf. He had finished it, per John 19:28.

Where do you find Christ receiving a payment on the cross. Propitiation is not receiving a payment. He was the atoning sacrifice, His death appeased the Father. Because the Father was appeased He can show mercy to sinful man and save those the trust in His risen son.

Christ's death made salvation possible for all but it saved no one. 1Co 15:17 and "if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins." If one does not place their faith in the risen Son then they are lost.


The crucified Christ makes all savable, the risen Christ saves those that believe.

Rom 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Rom 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
Rom 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52 are you using "redeemed" to indicate "purchased" or as "saved"? I have understood from your previous posts that you are using "redeemed" in the since of saved. Correct me if I am wrong. In prior posts I should have used "saved" rather than "redeemed" as it would not have lead to this confusion.

We are "redeemed" purchased by the blood of Christ but no one is "saved" unless they personally trust in the risen Christ. If you had looked at the context of Titus 2:14 it would have helped you in understanding the text.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Tit 2:12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,
Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
So we see that salvation is available to all men, redemption was made for all men, but only those that trust in the risen Son will be saved. 1Co 15:17 "And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!"

So when we see in Tit 2:14 " who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed,... " We know that of all those redeemed / purchased by His blood these are the ones that have personally trusted in Christ Jesus for their salvation.

We see the same thing in Rev 5:9. Christ purchased all of mankind but only those that personally trust in Him for their salvation will be saved.

Im using it the way its written, and by which you blaspheme Rev 5:9-10


9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us[By dying], that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Van]

No its not wrong. Those in Rev 5:9-10 were redeemed unto God by Christs Blood.

Claiming "A" is true, therefore "B" is true is obviously wrong.Since Christ died as a ransom for all, that includes those who received the reconciliation.

 

[Silverhair]

Im using it the way its written, and by which you blaspheme Rev 5:9-10


9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us[By dying], that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

It is sad that you will hold to your errant view and trust it over the word of God. The bible is not a book of one liners that you can pull out of context to support your views but you do that all the time.

 

[Brightfame52]

Claiming "A" is true, therefore "B" is true is obviously wrong.Since Christ died as a ransom for all, that includes those who received the reconciliation.

Do you agree with that poster, that Christs Blood redeemed no one ?

 

[Brightfame52]

It is sad that you will hold to your errant view and trust it over the word of God. The bible is not a book of one liners that you can pull out of context to support your views but you do that all the time.

Its sad that you blaspheme the redeeming Blood/Death of Christ. Here is your Blaspheme:

@siverhair

Actually His death redeemed no one.

Thats unbelief as well, you definitely dont have Faith in His Blood

Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;