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Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?2

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Sep 8, 2021.

  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It made them Christ died for Spiritually Rich !

    2 Cor 8:9

    9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

    Notice "That ye [ The Church of God see 2 Cor 1:1] through His poverty [ made in the likeness of sinful flesh] might be rich.

    This is stating a Divine Purpose to be accomplished through His coming and giving His Life for the objects He gave His Life for, the Church of God. Notice to whom this Letter is written 2 Cor 1:1

    1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

    And we know scripture tells us without question That Christ gave Himself for the Church He Loved Eph 5:25

    25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

    The end result is to make it Rich.

    Remember Christ told some in the Church Smyrna Rev 2:9

    9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

    This is stated to be Christ Purpose for coming into the world in 2 Cor 8:9.

    That ye through His Poverty might be rich.

    This statement is in the subjunctive mood, which means the result in view is contingent upon a condition, in this instance the condition is Christ being made poor for them. And whenever the conjunction word hina precedes the stated end, it denotes the Divine Purpose is the First Cause, and means "in order that" or "so that"

    Christ was made poor in order that ye be made rich !

    This includes their sin debt being paid in full and being clothed in the fine linen of Christ Imputed Righteousness and being made rich in Faith. 2 Cor 5:21

    21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Rom 5:19

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    James 2:5

    5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

    God chose them to be and made them rich in Faith through Christ being made poor for them !

    It is God only who maketh Rich 1 Sam 2:7

    7 The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

    Now this Truth is True in both a natural sense and Spiritual sense !

    God through Christ makes us Kings and Priests Rev 1:5-6

    5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;
    to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    You see that " hath made us so" not offer to make, or make it available if you accept it. But He makes it happen !

    That word made is the greek word poieō and means:


    to make

    a) with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion,

    to make a thing out of something

    to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that

    to make one do something

    1) cause one to

    You see that ? To make one do something. Not ask them to do it, but makes them do it !

    This is being made a new creature in Christ Spiritual Kingdom !

    All this is a accomplishment of the Atonement and to enter man's freewill into this is nothing less than blasphemy and attempts to steal the Crown that belongs upon the Head of Christ.
     
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  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Christ death accomplished Redemption for His People !

    About Redemption, God does not call the redeemed to return to Him[Repentance] in order to be redeemed, but because they are already redeemed Isa 44:22

    22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

    Thats done solely by the Blood of Christ Eph 1:7

    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    God through Christ hath already redeemed Israel, His Chosen in Christ !

    Isa 43:1

    But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

    Isa 44:23

    Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

    Lk 1:68

    Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

    These are not referring to Israel according to the Flesh, Abraham's physical descendants, because they in themselves are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.60

    But this Israel are all those Chosen in Christ before the Foundation of the world, The Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

    Also its the same with reconciliation, God does not call the reconciled in order to be reconciled, but because they are already objectively reconciled by the Death of God's Son. Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    2 Cor 5:18-20

    18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

    19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

    So the Gospel call goes out to the already redeemed or the already reconciled, now is time for them to receive the Knowledge and comfort of them..
     
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  3. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The granting of the ability to be saved by the blood of Christ.
    MB
     
  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The Lord Jesus Christ of whom Adam was a Type, took the place of a countless multitude of God's Elect, who were given to Him by His Father [Jn 17:2;6:37], and He died on the cross in behalf of them, even though many had yet to be born, and through Him, they have been Redeemed, Justified, Forgiven, Sanctified, Saved and made Righteous by His Blood; For of a Truth they were accepted in the Beloved and Blessed with all Spiritual Blessings [not in their actual persons as of yet, but in their Covenant Head] before time began, in the Lamb of God which was slain from the foundation of the world. Rom 8:29-30; Eph 1:3-7; 2 Tim 1:9; Rev 13:8. For the Spirit in no uncertain terms declares " The works were finished from the foundation of the world" Heb 4:3 ! This reference is regarding creation, but its a parallel with the finished work of Redemption.
     
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  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Thats not true, the Blood of Christ saves by its own ability, it doesnt enable one the ability to become saved. Like Grace, it actually saves Eph 2:5

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

    Not by grace ye are enable to be saved.

    When we say, one has been granted the ability to be saved, that speaks to synergism salvation, which totally disengages from Grace.and promotes works salvation which is totally against scripture.
     
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  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    It does enable those who believe to be saved. Other wise no one is saved. It's why Christ came to save the whole world

    [QUOTE="Brightfame52, post: 2729889, member: 18124"

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

    Not by grace ye are enable to be saved.

    [/QUOTE]

    We are not saved by grace alone.We are saved by Grace through faith

    [QUOTE="Brightfame52, post: 2729889, member: 18124"

    When we say, one has been granted the ability to be saved, that speaks to synergism salvation, which totally disengages from Grace.and promotes works salvation which is totally against scripture.

    [/QUOTE]


    This is your false gospel and it does not line up with scripture.
    . Jn. 3:16 says he came to save the world and that fact makes it possible that anyone can be saved. All they have to do is believe.
    ; The bible never says only the supposed elect will be saved. Which is a Calvinist belief and is not in scripture Not to mention it never says Gentiles are elect
    MB.
     
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    We are not saved by grace alone.We are saved by Grace through faith

    [QUOTE="Brightfame52, post: 2729889, member: 18124"

    When we say, one has been granted the ability to be saved, that speaks to synergism salvation, which totally disengages from Grace.and promotes works salvation which is totally against scripture.

    [/QUOTE]


    This is your false gospel and it does not line up with scripture.
    . Jn. 3:16 says he came to save the world and that fact makes it possible that anyone can be saved. All they have to do is believe.
    ; The bible never says only the supposed elect will be saved. Which is a Calvinist belief and is not in scripture Not to mention it never says Gentiles are elect
    MB.[/QUOTE]
    Yes by Grace alone, God alone.
     
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    mb

    Its still Grace, a person believes by Grace Acts 18:27 and Faith is not of ourselves, its the Gift of God, its a Gift of Gods Grace.

    You are adding the actions of men in salvation, that is against grace.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Faith is not the gift in Ephesians 2:8. Being saved is the gift which is not of ourselves.
     
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Yes Faith is the Gift of God it accompanies Salvation
     
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well, that may be your understanding. But faith precedes salvation. There are cases of faith where the persons are not yet regenerated, if at all. Matthew 7:21-23, Hebrews 6:4-6, Luke 8:13, and Acts of the Apostles 8:12-13 are cases in point.
     
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is not at issue.
     
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Christ Death accomplished and obtained Eternal Redemption for us ! Heb 9:12

    12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us

    Who are the Us ? That would be the Seed of Abraham of whom He came and took on the Seed of Heb 2:16

    16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.62

    Now for this Seed, He obtained Eternal Redemption for !

    The word obtained here is the greek word heuriskō and means:


    to find out for one's self, to acquire, get, obtain, procure

    Here are a couple of other translations:

    WNT and once for all entered the Holy place, taking with Him not the blood of goats and calves, but His own blood, and thus procuring eternal redemption for us.

    This word procuring also means to secure :

    ISV Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood he went into the Holy of Holies once for all and secured our eternal redemption.

    The word origin of procure is defined :

    "bring about, cause, effect,"

    So, The point is , Christ just did not obtain Eternal Redemption for us to merely have it as a possession, but that He would bring about redemptive results, effects.

    You see, Heb 8-10 are Chapters describing to its readers the far Superior value of Christ's Priesthood over and above that of the Levitical Priesthood and its results and effects, which fade in comparison to what Christ accomplished with God with His Blood for His People.

    So Christ obtained, procured an Eternal Redemption for us, The Seed of Abraham. And He is not stagnated with this redemption, but bequeaths it's benefits upon the Heirs. You see, He procured it for a Purpose !
     
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe its not to you, but it is to God ! Thats why He makes alive His elect first who were dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,5 !

    This is the problem in religion today, man doesnt realize that naturally to the things spiritual of God, hes dead !
     
  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    If Jn 3:16 is a false gospel you can't read . You try to convince people the Bible does not say what it does by telling them the word "world" does not mean everyone but in stead it means elect. I can only ask in what dictionary?
    If Grace were alone then why did Paul say we are saved by grace through faith?
    Speaking of works Calvinist believe if you have no works you're not saved. They say no works prove a man is not saved.
    Eph 2:8-9 is saying Grace is not alone.it says faith is needed for Grace to come through to us
    The Bible says:
    Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
    This is saying to me that works are not needed for Salvation. Looks to me like your gospel is false because you have to make it up.
    MB.
     
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  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    To be made Kings and Priest does not mean forced decisions to be saved. You seem to take a little bit of scripture and add your Calvinism to it. Just show me where the Bible says we have to be elect to be saved. Show me where Gentiles are elected by God. Bet you can't. If you can't this alone proves your calvinism is a false doctrine
    MB
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The context teaches "through faith." Ephesians 2:1-8. Indicating the faith is prior to salvation. I see no exception to this Biblical truth. Aka what God teaches on this matter.
     
  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely a bunch of nonsense. Acts 16:31 proves it.
    MB
     
  20. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    A Person is saved by Grace alone, even the believing is part of Grace saving. People only believe because of Grace Acts 18:27.
     
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