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Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ? 8

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Feb 18, 2023.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the Gospel is hidden to the lost, so as long as one is lost, the Gospel is hid and they cannot believe what is hid. Sorry
     
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  2. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    True--until the Gospel inspired of the Holy Spirit reveals it to the lost sinner--at which point he or she will receive or reject Christ and salvation by grace.
     
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Not until a lost person becomes saved can he believe the Gospel, if they are lost, its hidden and they cant believe it.
     
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  4. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    A person cannot be saved until he or she believes the Gospel, for it, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is the power of God unto salvation to him that believes. Belief is first. Romans 1:16.
     
  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    A person cannot believe the Gospel until they are saved, for the Gospel is hid to them that are lost.
     
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  6. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    One cannot be saved before he or she believes. Unbelievers are lost. Believers are saved.

    John 3: 18 ¶ He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    According to you, he that believes not is NOT condemned already, but the unbeliever is saved and somewhere down the line somehow becomes a believer, which is unnecessary, because he was already saved when he still had not believed.

    You calvinists have reversed Scripture and turned it upside down.

    Maybe you think that in the beginning the heaven and the Earth created God?
     
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    A lost person is a unbeliever and the only way to become a believer is God must save us first. The Gospel is hidden to them that are lost so they arent able to believe 2 Cor 4:3-4

    3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    They believe not because they are lost and blinded in the mind, no one can believe in that condition friend.
     
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  8. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    You have it backward. John 3: 18 ¶ He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Unbelievers are lost. One must believe to be saved, not be saved to believe. That's not Scriptural.
     
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It makes all of them alive /unto God ! 2


    You see, all who were in Adam, when he sinned died to God Rom 5:12

    12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    In God's way of doing things, when the one man adam sinned, all men in him had sinned, and the sentence of death was passed upon all men who sinned in Adam !

    The words passed upon are the greek dierchomai and means:


    I.to go through, pass through

    A.to go, walk, journey, pass through a place


    B.to travel the road which leads through a place, go, pass, travel through a region



    II.to go different places

    A.of people, to go abroad


    B.of a report, to spread, go abroad


    And the sense is : Death passed through to all men in that no one could escape its power ! Similar to what is said here Rom 5:17,21

    17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

    21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    God caused sin and death to reign supremely as to no one escaped its power,

    Causing all men to be dead to God, it was not a matter of mens choice, but God's Sovereignty !

    But, on the other hand, the Good News is, all men who were in Christ when He obeyed, even unto death Phil 2:8; Rom 5:19, Grace , Righteousness and Life are made to reign causing them to be made alive unto God, now if this does not happen, it means that what consequences men suffered in adam, were of greater and superior consequences than what men receive that were in Christ ! That means death reigned superior over God's Grace through Righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord ! 33
     
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  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Redeemed from the curse of the Law and how ?


    Gal 3:13

    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, HOW ?being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    We need to understand something here from the jump, being redeemed is equivalent to being saved, being redeemed from the curse of the Law is Salvation, 100 % Salvation and ensures all the Blessings of Salvation !

    Its the word exagorazō and means:


    I.to redeem

    A.by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off


    B.metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death



    II.to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

    A.to make wise and sacred use of every opportunity for doing good, so that zeal and well doing are as it were the purchase money by which we make the time our own

    Redeemed from the power of the devil !

    The end or purpose of this redemption is expressed in Gal 4:5

    To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    This Adoption of Sons is receiving a nature that corresponds with and manifests those who have been redeemed as Sons. A nature is given that now combats the nature we have by nature in adam !

    John Gill comments on Gal 4:5

    that we might receive the adoption of children; by which may be meant, both the grace, blessing, and privilege of adoption, and the inheritance adopted to; both are received, and that in consequence of redemption by Christ; and such as receive the one will also receive the other. Adoption, as a blessing of grace, exists before it is received; nor does the reception of it add anything to the thing itself; it was in God's designation from all eternity, who predestinated his chosen ones unto it by Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will; it was provided, laid up, and secured for them in the everlasting covenant; and is part of that grace given them in Christ before the world began; but sin intervening, whereby the law was broken, obstacles were thrown in the way of God's elect receiving and enjoying this privilege in their own persons; wherefore Christ was sent to redeem them from sin and the law, and by so doing remove these obstructions, that so they might receive this privilege in a way consistent with the righteousness and holiness of God, as well as with his grace and goodness: receiving of it shows it to be a gift, a free grace gift, and not owing to any merit of the creature; faith is the hand which receives it, as it does all other blessings, as Christ himself, grace out of his fulness, righteousness, pardon, &c. and has no more causal influence on this than on any of these; faith does not make any the sons of God, or put them among the children; but receives the power, the authority, the privilege from God through Christ, under the witnessings of the spirit of adoption; whereby they become such, and have a right to the heavenly inheritance, which they shall hereafter enjoy.

    Now again, Christ's death is saving in that it redeems all them He died for out of the curse of the Law ! That one fact is Salvation ! Look what David writes about some in regards to God's Law Ps 119:21

    Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, which do err from thy commandments.

    All men by nature are proud and err from God's Commandments and so deserve the curse,

    But those Christ died for are redeemed from the curse of the Law, they are saved from the curse of the Law which equates to Salvation. The word curse katara means:

    I.an execration, imprecation, curse,

    what has "to go down" (penalties received) due to condemnation, i.e. the penalty-curse that results when God Himself curses (condemns) something.

    men worthy of execration, 2 Peter 2:14; abstract for the concrete, one in whom the curse is exhibited, i. e. undergoing the appointed penalty of cursing, Galatians 3:13; ἐγώ κατάρα

    Being under the curse is very solemn thing ! But now how are they redeemed out of the curse of the Law ? Is it by their Faith ? Their Repentance ?33
     
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  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    ‘For the [soul] life (What that made from the dust of the ground became Gen 2:7) of the flesh (made from the, "dust from the ground" Gen 2:7 is in the blood (the spirit of the breath of lives," Gen 2:7 Gen 7:22), and I have given it (the spirit of the breath of lives, of Christ) to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood (of Christ) by reason of the [soul] life that makes atonement.’

    Atonement for the man of Gen 2:7 and his kind?
     
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Redeemed from the curse of the Law and how ?2


    Being under the curse is very solemn thing ! But now how are they redeemed out of the curse of the Law ? Is it by their Faith ? Their Repentance ?

    God forbid, it was not because of anything they did or did not do, But it was by this Gal 3:13

    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    You see that ? How are People Redeemed out of the Curse of the Law ? By Jesus Christ Himself, their Surety being made a Curse for them !

    Thats it folks, thats all that had to be done, God has been satisfied with that, thats Salvation from all sin and its consequences, for as Paul wrote 1 Cor 15:56

    56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    Hence, none for whom Christ died shall ever hear these words directed towards them Matt 25:41

    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    The word cursed here is the exact same word as in Gal 3:13 except its in the verb form, whereas there its in the noun form !

    So Matt 25:41 the cursed there cannot possible be any for whom Christ was made a curse for in Gal 3:13, because they whom He was made a curse for, have been redeemed out from the curse of the Law, and all sin , unrighteousness, unbelief, disobedience finds its strength of meaning as it is against the Law 1 Cor 15:56, So Matt 25:41 can only speak of those who never were redeemed from the curse of the Law, which they would have been if Christ died for them a curse as stated in Gal 3:13 ! 34
     
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  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Christ's Death effects Faith/ Coming to God !


    1 Pet 3:18

    18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    This Faith Coming to God has always been by the Death of Christ, even before He died, thats just how beneficial His Meritorious Death was, that even it effected the Faith in God of the OT Saints 1 Pet 1:20-21

    20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    Again Christ's Death causes Faith in God, a coming to God or bringing to God 1 Pet 3:18, and His Death alone !

    Now here in the text, the one having suffered for sin, the Just for the unjust, that is His having been put to death in the flesh, it had a Divine Purpose, it was that [Hina Purpose] He might us [Believers/Elect 1 Pet 1:2] to God !

    The word bring is the greek word prosago :


    I.to lead, to bring

    A.to open a way of access, for one to God

    i.to render one acceptable to God



    B.in a forensic sense, to summon (to trial or punishment)



    II.to draw near to, approach

    A.the land which a sailor is approaching seeming to approach him See Ps 65:4

    The word prosaago is the same word in the Coming of Faith Heb 11:6

    The word cometh here proserchomai means:


    I.to come to, approach


    II.draw near to


    III.to assent to

    That word assent indicates :

    complying ,to act in agreement with or obedience to a wish, request, requirement, or rule , obey, acquiesce !

    And so that type of Coming Faith, which Pleases God, is an effect, by-product of Christ having suffered and being put to death in the flesh ! Its another way of how He is the Author of our Faith, OT and NT Saints !
     
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  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Made us dead to the Law !


    Rom 7:4

    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    One of the things that lets us know that Christ's Death was limited to only a blessed portion of mankind instead of all of it without exception, is by its accomplishments, because we know that all do not partake of its accomplishments, but only some .

    Paul writes here a most tremendous Truth concerning Believers only, saying to them, " Ye also are become dead to the law" !

    The most important thing here is just how did this happen ? How did they become dead to the Law ? Was it by their Faith or Believing ? What about their Repentance , or Water Baptism ? God forbid, it wasn't because of anything they did, but it was solely by the Body of Christ, which simply means His Death !

    Its crystal clear in the verse Rom 7:4

    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Remember when Peter writes 1 Pet 2:24

    24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    That Christ bore the believers sins in His OWN BODY on the Tree, that's Paul's meaning when he writes :

    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Thats how believers became dead to the Law, when Christ bare their sins [after being charged to Him] in His Own Body on the Tree.

    Now if we are one of the Blessed Ones that Christ bare our sins on that Tree, as also stated here Isa 53:11-12

    11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    Yes, if we are one of those blessed many, instantly and at once we became dead to the Law !
     
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  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Made us dead to the Law ! 2

    Now what does it mean to be dead to the Law ? Rom 7:4

    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Now understand, the Law, which is the strength of sin 1 Cor 15:56

    56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    Sin is Transgression of the Law 1 Jn 3:4 ! It means that we have been put to death to the curse of the Law Gal 3:13

    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    We are dead to the curse of the Law, when Christ bare our sins [that were charged to him] in His Own Body on the Tree, He was then made a curse for us, redeeming us from the curse of the Law, so all for whom Christ Died are by that death alone dead to the curse of the Law, which in and of itself is an aspect of Salvation Ps 106:10

    And he saved them from the hand of him that hated them, and redeemed them from the hand of the enemy.

    Isa 63:9

    For many unlearned men would make a difference in being saved and being redeemed, they are the same !, just stated differently !

    None whom Christ died for shall ever hear these words directed towards them as some will Matt 25:41

    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:34
     
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  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Made us dead to the Law ! 3

    Rom 7:4

    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Now by the Body of Christ, that is to say , by His Death, we were made Dead to the Laws condemning power, which also means that, although we still sin daily in regards to God's Holy Moral Law, either by tongue, our thoughts or manifested actions out of the heart Matt 15:19 ,

    Because by Christ's Death making us dead to the Law, none of those sins can be charged to us to condemn us before God,

    Paul's words in Rom 8:33-34

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    Well that charge does include any charge or transgression against God's Law !

    For instance, suppose one for whom Christ died/or a brother in Christ is guilty of what Jesus calls Adultery here Matt 5:28 and that word looking blepon means to gaze at, and its in the present tense, a continual state of gazing, lusting after her, at that time they are committing Adultery in their heart, a violation of the seventh commandment of the Moral Law of God See Ex 20:14, and before the eyes of a Holy God, this is worthy of death, even eternal death, the wrath of God Eph 5:6,

    Yet this Transgression [see James 2:10-11] will not be and cannot be layed to their charge, God does not charge them with it because of whats stated in Rom 7:4 being dead to the Law by the Body of Christ !
     
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  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Made us dead to the Law ! 4

    Rom 7:4

    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Folks this is a profound Truth, that they for whom Christ died are dead to the Law, and so they are dead to the severe consequences of having sinned against it, one such consequence is death; Recall back in 1 Cor 15:56 that the strength of sin is the Law :

    56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    Death has its right to reign because its the result of sinning against the Law, so the Law gives sin its power , which sin gives death its power. Death is the consequence of sin Rom 6:23

    23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Sin here was against God's Law or Command first by Adam's transgression from this Law/Command Gen 2:16-17

    16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    So sense we become dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, sin cannot be charged, and so death, all types of it, can no longer be a Lawful consequence, hence all for whom Christ died, as a matter of Divine Justice must be redeemed out of death, that does include but not limited to Spiritual Death. Paul says Christ has abolished death 2 Tim 1:10 !

    Thats why its important for all whom Christ died to be made alive unto God, hence all for whom Christ died, to validate the Truth that He for them has abolished death and that by His Body they are dead to the Law, they must be made alive unto God or another way of saying it is that they must be born again Eph 2:5

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

    If all for whom Christ died are not made alive, its a miscarriage of Justice, and it means that Christ's death did not abolish death !
     
  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    A LOT OF NICE STUFF IN THESE POSTS!!!
     
  19. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I like it. Many glories to God and His Son for what He Accomplished in His Work of Eternal Salvation for the souls of His Elect.

     
  20. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Made us dead to the Law ! 5

    Now what does this mean ? Rom 7:4

    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    If its indeed true that those who believe, were dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, again simply meaning by His Death, it means that Believers had a secret Union with Christ when He died for Our sins ! This is something that all religionists fail to understand, yet in order for Christ to have died legally for the sins of others 1 Cor 15:3, there had to be already established in the first place a legal union /bond, for that is first in importance; It had to be a Legal Ground and basis for God being able to charge Christ with sins of others in order for Him to die for them.

    There had to be a preexisting condition/union, and that was established in the Eternal Purpose of God in Election before the Foundation of the World Eph 1:4, and so of Him [God the Father were we united to Christ, in Him with Legal Union 1 Cor 1:30

    30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

    Without such Union in Him, there was no basis for Him being a Kinsmen Redeemer for Redemption.

    Thats why Paul wrote that He Loved and gave Himself for the Church Eph 5:25,26 which is His Body Vs 26, hence He was the Legal Head of His Body the Church, His Wife also, making it a Just cause before God, to charge His wifes sins to His account, or the sins of His Body to Him the Head !
     
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