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Featured The Baptism With the Holy Ghost

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Darrell C, May 30, 2016.

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What is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost?

This poll will close on Sep 30, 2024 at 8:47 AM.
  1. 1. Immersion into God at salvation.

    5 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. 2. Empowerment of God to the believer.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 3. A "second blessing" of the Spirit.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 4. A subsequent event that takes place after one is saved.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Another false argument. Peter says the gospel was preached by ALL the prophets (Acts 10:43). Paul says the SAME gospel was preached unto them as well as unto us (Heb. 4:2). So, the true gospel was preached unto them contrary to your denial. The problem is your understanding of "mystery" which refers to the means of death (the cross) and the new subjects of gospel focus (the gentiles). You are teaching HALF truths and thus a perverted doctrine.

    First, it proves that they had received the prophetic gospel preached by all the prophets and were actually looking for his coming. They did not know that the Messiah was Jesus of Nazereth - that is part of progressive revelation but UNNCESSARY because they could be justified just like Abraham according to the PRESENT REVELATION of the gospel.



    You fully well know the term "least" can mean YOUNGER IN AGE and John was six months older than Christ. Jesus was "greater" than John even though he was younger than John. No one is greater than Jesus in the kingdom of God - no one, not even the greatest prophet.
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning

    Sometime after 3pm Pacific, this thread will be closed.
     
  3. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    There you go again, lol. Charging me with what you yourself are doing.

    Sure, the Prophets, and the Psalms, and the Law...all preached Christ.

    But that does not mean they understood the Mystery.

    As I said before, Biblicist, maybe one day we can have a two-sided conversation about this subject, but, it is obvious you are not able to divorce yourself from false arguments which have been consistently shown to be false arguments. You can deny this to yourself, but it is painfully obvious.

    Thanks to all that have participated, and especially to those of you who actually voted in the poll. I will try to run another thread when I come back next time, and I will include a more specific option for the "non-of-the-abovers," who seem to think that the Baptism with the holy Ghost is a public accreditation of the Church's authority.


    God bless.
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    My summary:

    My position: There is a universal problem that is common to all mankind before and after Pentecost and it is "sin" that results in spiritual separation from God. To be spiritually separated from God is to be without life, without light and without holiness. There is no other solution to sin than justification (remission of sins and imputed righteousness) and there is no other solution to spiritual separation than regeneration.

    A. REGENERATION the ONLY solution for the universal problem

    Paul describes the unregenerate state of man in Adam without light,without life and without holiness: Eph. 4:18-19:

    18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
    19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

    1. Without LIGHT = "understanding DARKENED...BLINDNESS of their heart"
    2. Without LIFE = "alienated from the life of God"
    3. Without HOLINESS = "to work all uncleaness"

    Regeneration is the ONLY solution to this universal problem "in Adam" and that is why regeneration is the CREATION of light in the darkened heart of man as God created light in Genesis 1:3:

    1. REGNERATION IS THE CREATION OF LIGHT IN FALLEN MAN 2 Cor. 4:6
    For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

    2. REGENERATION IS THE CREATION OF HOLINESS that removes or cleanses unholiness- Eph. 4:24/Col. 3:10/Tit. 3:10

    Eph. 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    Col. 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

    Tit. 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    3. REGENERATION IS THE CREATION OF LIFE - Eph. 2:1,5,10

    And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;....
    Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    .....For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works
    ,

    Regneration is being "created in Christ" meaning we are brought into SPIRITUAL UNION with LIFE, LIGHT and HOLINESS as a CREATIVE act of God called regeneration. This is the ONLY solution to SPIRITUAL SEPARATION and universal deadness in tresspasses and sins.


    B. JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH WHILE UNDER THE LAW OR NOT UNDER THE LAW

    Abraham is the OMNI-Dispensational standard for justification by faith WITHOUT WORKS and WITHOUT LAW for those WHILE "under the Law" as well as for those not under the Law:

    And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
    12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. - Rom. 4:11-12



    16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


    C. THE BENEFITS OF THE ATONEMENT APPLIED BEFORE THE FIRST ADVENT

    The only possible way a sinner spiritually separated from God can be accepted (reconciled to) by God is by justification and regeneration - there is no other possible way.

    Abraham proves atonement benefits were applied before the first advent as he was justified = sins remitted AND righteousness imputed DISTINCT SEPARATE FROM DIVINE ORDINANCES/SACRIFICES and WITHOUT WORKS and WITHOUT OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW:

    5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
    6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
    7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
    8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
    9 ΒΆ Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
    10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
    11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

    Abraham was not "under the Law" as he existed 430 years before the Mosaic Law. However, David was "under the law" and it is David that Paul says received justification and remission of sins WITHOUT WORKS.

    The coming of Christ and the cross JUSTIFIED GOD for having applied it prior to the cross:


    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


    He proves this with the quotation from David in Rom. 4:6-8. He proves this by claiming Abraham had been justified as well (sins remitted, righteousness imputed) while in uncircumcision.


    D. SACRIFICES FROM GENESIS TO MALICHI NEVER RESOLVED SIN OR REMITTED SIN WHETHER TEMPORARILY OR ETERNALLY: - Heb. 10:1-4 but only TYPICALLY remitted sins by declaring the object of saving faith based upon the gospel revealed to them.

    1. Abel's sacrifice proves this - Heb. 11:4
    2. Paul declares this - Heb. 10:1-4


    DARRELL'S POSITION:

    1. He denies that Abraham is the STANDARD for justification under all dispensations.
    2. He claims that sacrifices "under the Law" were the divine means to deal with sin at that time.
    3. He claims all prior to Pentecost were OUTSIDE OF CHRIST and had ANOTHER KIND OF SALVATION.
    4. Darrell has NO SOLUTION for SPIRITUAL SEPARATION FROM GOD for anyone prior to Pentecost and therefore has no real SALVATION for anyone before Pentecost as spiritual separation is THE PROBLEM due to sin.



    RELATIONSHIP TO THE BAPTISM IN THE SPIRIT

    If the baptism in the Spirit is viewed as placing one "in God" or in UNION with God then all prior to Pentecost lived their whole entire lives in spiritual separation from God, thus without life, without light and without holiness. The Baptism in the Spirit is precisely the same as it was in the Old Testament = institutional house of God accreditation and indwelling. It is one aspect of the establishing of a COVENANT ADMINISTRATION. It has nothing to do with instituting a NEW kind of salvation but rather it is in connection with a new public covenant administration where salvation is directed to a NEW people (gentles/world).
     
    #204 The Biblicist, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This thread is closed.
     
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