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Featured The Bible Way of Salvation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Oct 23, 2021.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    This is how I see that Bible’s way for a sinner to get saved.

    1. No human being can, in and of themselves, call upon the Lord for their salvation. The Bible is very clear, as Romans 3:11 says: “There is no one who seeks after God”. The natural person would not desire to give their lives to the Lord. Salvation is a free Gift from God to the human race: “for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    2. There is no “good work” that a sinner can ever do, that can “merit” their salvation. “Works salvation” is a man-made heresy. This is very clear in Romans 11:6, “And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work”.

    3. Saving Faith, which leads a sinner to repentance and faith in the Lord, comes from the hearing in the inner person, of the Gospel Message preached, as Romans 10:17 says, “So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”. As this faith cannot be self-manufactured, it must be a gift from God, through the Message received by the sinner.

    4. The sinner hears the Gospel Message, and is convicted by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus tells is in John 16:8-9, “When he has come, he will convict the world about sin…about sin, because they don’t believe in me". Which is what happened to those who heard Peter’s sermon on the Day of Pentecost. “Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37)

    5. The sinner must, before they are saved, repent of their sins, and believe in their hearts the Gospel about the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith alone cannot save any sinner, apart from repenting of their sins. Mark 1:15, is very clear on this, “The time is fulfilled, and God’s Kingdom is at hand! Repent, and believe in the Good News.” Jesus does not say, “repent”, or “believe”, but the two must be taken together. Luke 24:47 also says, “and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem”. After Peter finished preaching on the Day of Pentecost, those who had been “convicted” by the Holy Spirit, asked “what shall we DO”. To which Peter responds, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38). So all of those who were under the conviction by the Holy Spirit, were told, not “do nothing”, but only “have faith”, as some falsely teach, but rather, “REPENT for forgiveness of sins”, and then they would “receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit”.

    6. These on the Day of Pentecost, as is with all sinners, BELIEVED in the Gospel Message as preached by Peter. They were then called on to REPENT of their sins for their salvation. Ephesians 1:13 tells us, “in whom you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation--in whom, having also believed, you were Sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise”. The Gift of the Holy Spirit in Acts (Acts 2:38), is the same as the “Sealing with the Holy Spirit”. The sinner is then a “born-again” believer, who is guaranteed to be with the Lord forever in Heaven!

    7. From the time that the sinner is “born-again”, their eternal life begins, which is for all eternity, and cannot be lost at any time. Jesus Himself promises us, “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life” (John 5:24). “has passed” in the Greek is the perfect active, showing that they had already crossed over from death to eternal life! In chapter 10, Jesus promises, “I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand” (28-29). The Greek is much stronger, “and in no way will they perish for ever”. Very emphatic. Once a sinner is “born-again”, they cannot ever be lost!
     
    #1 SavedByGrace, Oct 23, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You were doing so well in points 1-4. Then you completely contradict yourself by inserting the bolded in point 5. In so doing you nullify the grace you advocated in the earlier points and thus advocate works salvation. You create salvation by virtue of a law: The sinner must, before they are saved, repent of their sins
    There is the condition you demand of everyone. This negates the unconditional, unmerited grace of God and inserts merited deeds (law) as the means of salvation.

    Repentance is an effect of unmerited saving grace. Repentance is the initial and continuing process of sanctification (being made holy, set apart) which God works in the believer. It is not a legal requirement to be saved.

    From points 5-7 you are really discussing the work of sanctification, which upon death will result in glorification in Christ.

    It is my hope that you can see how you inserted a condition that nullifies grace. I have tried to be clear with you so you can see it. May God graciously help as you earnestly desire to follow Christ.
     
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  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Good catch. Well stated response.

    Peace to you
     
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  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    man, WHAT is wrong with you??? WHY are you so against that Bible's clear teaching in both Testaments, that a sinner MUST REPENT of their sins? I do NOT say this as my personal choice, but have shown from the Word of God, and yet you REBEL against these teachings. You seriously need ungent help!
     
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    NO sinner can ever be saved without first repenting of their sins. Jesus Christ says this, and He CANNOT lie!
     
  6. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    @SavedByGrace :


    1)
    Agreed.
    2) Agreed.
    3) I no longer call it "saving faith", as I do not believe that a person's belief in Christ or belief of God's words is what motivated the Lord to grant them the gift of eternal life and everything that comes along with it. I agree ( similar to you ) that faith cannot be "self-maunfactured", and I also see that it is a gift from God ( Ephesians 2:8 ) that was authored and finished by Jesus Christ ( Hebrews 12:2 ), and in some translations ( as well as the Greek texts ) it is said to be the faith "of" Jesus Christ ( Galatians 2:16-20 and others ) which agrees with what is said in Hebrews 12:2.

    4) I disagree, and the reason I do so is because I see John 16 telling us that that when the Holy Spirit is come, He will reprove ( or convict ) the world of sin... in the sense of their being guilty for not believing on Christ. I do not see this saying that He convicts all sinners of the truth of Jesus Christ and their need for a Saviour.
    When I read the Scriptures, I see that what happened on the day of Pentecost was the same thing that happened to Lydia in Acts of the Apostles 16:14...the Lord opened the hearts of those He has saved in the crowd that day ( they believed because they were ordained to eternal life as Acts of the Apostles 13:48 tells us ) so that they would then "attend", or listen intently to God's words coming from His apostles.

    5) I disagree in part, and see that the reason that sinners genuinely ( and from the heart ) do the things that you've listed ( repent and believe ) is because of what I have described in item 4 above. I believe that these things happen as evidences, and not as conditions that the sinner needs to meet in order to satisfy a set of requirements for God to grant His grace to them.

    To me, you've listed a set of them that results in God's grace, instead of God's grace and mercy towards a sinner then resulting in those things being done naturally by a person whom the Lord has worked in the heart and mind of.

    6) I agree in that they did believe, and that they did repent, and for the reasons I've listed in item # 5 above. I also see, from the Scriptures, that Ephesians 1:13 does not describe when a person is actually born again, but when one of God's children are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who acts as both Comforter ( John 16:7 ) and Teacher ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 1 John 2:20-27 ) and then sealed unto the day of their bodily redemption. I see from other Scriptures that being born again is not of the will of men, but of God alone ( John 1:13 ), and that it was not because of our will that it was made so, but because of His will in James 1:18.

    7) I agree that from the time that the sinner is born again, their eternal life begins for them...but I differ with you in that I hold that they are made aware of their being a child of God, chosen in Him from before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ) and they then begin to walk as the children of light that they were created by God to be ( Romans 9:22-24, Ephesians 2:10 ).
    In their hearts and minds they are now passed from death, spiritually, to life in Christ and to a spirit-to-spirit relationship with Him and His Father, which the Bible calls "eternal life" ( John 17:2 ).
     
    #6 Dave G, Oct 23, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your response makes me sad. I was clear and complimented you on your first 4 points. Instead, you attack me and avoid considering what I pointed out.
    I will not argue with you as it is clear you refuse to allow God to save by grace alone. The matter is between you and God. I am at peace with God saving me by grace alone and then leading me to repentance, not just once, but continually over my lifetime.
    In this matter, I have been kind and respectful to you. I have tried to walk you through your contradiction. It is sad that you cannot see how you insert a merit based means of salvation where it must be grace alone.
     
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  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    your argumnent is directly with Jesus Christ and the Bible, NOT me!
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    are these wrong, and you right?

    John Calvin

    Even though we have taught in part how to possess Christ, and how through it we enjoy his benefits, this would still remain obscure if we did not add an explanation of the effects we feel. With good reason, the sum of the gospel is held to consist in repentance and the forgiveness of sins (Luke 24:47; Acts 5:31). Any discussion of faith, therefore, that omitted these two topics would be barren and mutilated and well–nigh useless…Surely no one can embrace the grace of the gospel without betaking himself from the errors of his past life into the right way, and applying his whole effort to the practice of repentance. Can true repentance stand apart from faith? Not at all. But even though they cannot be separated, they ought to be distinguished (John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion. Found in The Library of Christian Classics (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1960), Volume XIX, Book III, Chapters 1, 5, pp. 592-593, 597).

    Thomas Watson

    Repentance is of such importance that there is no being saved without it…It is a great duty incumbent upon Christians solemnly to repent and turn unto God…That religion which is not built upon this foundation must needs fall to the ground. Repentance is a grace required under the gospel. Some think it legal; but the first sermon that Christ preached, indeed, the first word of his sermon, was ‘Repent’ (Matt. 4.17). And his farewell that he left when he was going to ascend was that ‘repentance should be preached in his name’ (Luke 22.47)…Repentance is not arbitrary. It is not left to our choice whether or not we will repent, but it is an indispensable command. God has enacted a law in the High Court of heaven that no sinner shall be saved except the repenting sinner, and he will not break his own law. Some bless themselves that they have a stock of knowledge, but what is knowledge good for without repentance? It is better to mortify one sin than to understand all mysteries. Impure speculatists do but resemble Satan transformed into an angel of light. Learning and a bad heart is like a fair face with a cancer in the breast. Knowledge without repentance will be but a torch to light men to hell (Thomas Watson, The Doctrine of Repentance (Edinburgh: Banner, 1987), pp. 12–13, 59, 77).

    Louis Berkhof

    There is no doubt that, logically, repentance and the knowledge of sin precedes the faith that yields to Christ in trusting love (Louis Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1939), p. 492).

    John Murray


    The question has been discussed: which is prior, faith or repentance? It is an unnecessary question and the insistence that one is prior to the other is futile. There is no priority. The faith that is unto salvation is a penitent faith and the repentance that is unto life is a believing repentance…It is impossible to disentangle faith and repentance. Saving faith is permeated with repentance and repentance is permeated with faith (John Murray, Redemption Accomplished and Applied (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1955), p. 113).

    The Westminster Confession of Faith

    Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ. By it a sinner, out of sight and sense, not only of danger, but also of filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature and righteous law of God, and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments (The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter XV, Sections I and II. Cited in A.A. Hodge, The Confession of Faith (Edinburgh: Banner, 1958), p. 210).

    Robert Dabney

    The manner in which faith and repentance are coupled together in Scripture plainly shows that, as faith is implicitly present in repentance, so repentance is implicitly in faith. But if so, this gives to faith the active character. Mark i:15; Matt. xxi.32; 2 Tim. ii:25 c (R.L. Dabney, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1980), pp. 606-607).

    John DeWitt

    Repentance is the first conscious step in a person’s experience of the divine grace, the entrance for all believers into life, hope, and salvation…Repentance—the repentance of which the Scriptures speak as a godly sorrow, the repentance which is unto life—is not only a persuasion of sinfulness, but it is also, and very distinctly, a turning from sin…Everywhere the Word of God reminds us that repentance is not simply honesty with oneself, or even the open confession of one’s sins; it must also lead to a forsaking of them. If it does not do that, if it is only the fear of punishment and of hell, only a trembling before the just judgment of God, without at the same time the purposing to turn away from sin and to undertake a new obedience to God, then it is not repentance at all (John Richard deWitt, Amazing Love (Edinburgh: Banner, 1981), pp. 66, 74-76).

    Charles Hodge

    Hence it is that repentance is the burden of evangelical preaching…Repentance…is the great, immediate, and pressing duty of all who hear the gospel. They are called upon to forsake their sins, and return unto God through Jesus Christ. The neglect of this duty is the rejection of salvation. For, as we have seen, unless we repent we must perish…Though repentance is a duty, it is no less the gift of God (Charles Hodge, The Way of Life (Edinburgh: Banner, 1959), pp. 153, 166-169.

    Arthur Pink

    In repentance sin is the thing to be repented of and sin is a transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). And the first and chief thing required by the law is supreme love to God. Therefore, the lack of supreme love to God, the heart’s disaffection for His character and rebellion against Him (Rom. 8:7) is our great wickedness, of which we have to repent.
    What is sin? Sin is saying…I disallow His (God’s) right to govern me…I am going to be lord of myself. Sin is rebellion against the Majesty of heaven…The language of every sinner’s heart is, I care not what God requires, I am going to have my own way. I care not what be God’s claims upon me, I refuse to submit to His authority…The Lord Jesus taught and constantly pressed the same truth. His call was ‘Repent ye and believe the gospel’ (Mark 1:15). The gospel cannot be savingly believed until there is genuine repentance.
    When the gospel first comes to the sinner it finds him in a state of apostasy from God, both as sovereign Ruler and as our supreme good, neither obeying and glorifying Him, nor enjoying and finding satisfaction in Him. Hence the demand for ‘repentance toward God’ before ‘faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ’ (Acts 20:21). True repentance toward God removes this dissatisfaction of our minds and hearts toward Him, under both these characters. In saving repentance the whole soul turns to Him and says: I have been a disloyal and rebellious creature. I have scorned Thy high authority and most rightful law. I will live no longer thus. I desire and determine with all my might to serve and obey Thee as my only Lord. I subject myself unto Thee, to submit to Thy will…Repentance…is the perception that God has the right to rule and govern me, and of my refusal to submit unto Him…As the Holy Spirit sets before me the loveliness of the divine character, as I am enabled to discern the exalted excellency of God, then I begin to perceive that to which He is justly entitled, namely, the homage of my heart, the unrestricted love of my soul, the complete surrender of my whole being unto Him.
    Many are the scriptures which set forth this truth, that there must be a forsaking of sin before God will pardon offenders…He must be crowned Lord of all or He will not be Lord at all. There must be the complete heart renunciation of all that stands in competition with Him. He will brook no rival…Thus repentance is the negative side of conversion. Conversion is a whole–hearted turning unto God, but there cannot be a turning unto, without a turning from. Sin must be forsaken ere we draw nigh unto the Holy One. As it is written, ‘Ye turned to God from idols to serve (live for) the living and true God’ (1 Thes. 1:9) (A.W. Pink, The Doctrine of Salvation (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1975), pp.45, 49-53, 56, 58, 60, 79).
     
  10. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    @SavedByGrace :
    To me, the reason that someone believes on Christ is that they already have eternal life ( John 3:36, John 5:24 ), not in order to get it for themselves:

    " He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
    <---- Already has it ( not "will have" ), those that do not believe do so because the wrath of God abides ( not "will abide", but already does ) on them.

    " Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." <----- Already has ( not "will have" ) everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation.


    They will never perish, because Jesus Christ will lose none of the ones that His Father has given to Him ( John 6:37-40, John 10:28-29 ) and because nothing shall separate God's elect, whom the Lord has justified in His sight by the blood of His Son, from the love of their Father ( Romans 8:31-39 ).

    A sinner is saved through no conscious desire or effort of their own,
    and they are kept by the power of God ( 1 Peter 1:5 ) through no conscious desire or effort of their own.
    God's grace is therefore clean and pure, never tainted by works of any kind ( Romans 11:5-6, Titus 3:4-7 ), but a grace that is accompanied by works of righteousness ( John 3:21-22, Ephesians 2:10, James 2:14-26 ) that are evidences of His favor upon someone.


    To me, that is the Bible way of salvation, a salvation that is "of the Lord" start to finish and a direct result of His grace and mercy upon an innumerable company of His people out of every tongue, tribe and nation ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ).
    It is an act of God that He alone makes, because He alone decides who to save out of the mess that we willingly made of His creation.


    This is how I see the Bible describing how God has saved a sinner, so that it leaves no possibility for us as men to boast in our abilities to get it.
     
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  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Hey, glad to see you back on the board.

    No sinner can ever be saved without God first intervening in their lives by God Holy Spirit, convicting them of the truth of Jesus Christ and bringing them to saving faith.

    Argue all you want about where repentance fits into that process, as long as you recognize that salvation is a gift of God from start to finish.

    peace to you
     
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your careful and clear presentation of your beliefs, some of which I share.

    1) “for by grace you have been saved through faith, teaches our salvation is through or by reason of faith. Any faith? Nope, only the individuals faith if credited as righteousness by God. Thus some, in their unregenerate state seek God some of the time when they put their trust in Christ.

    2) Agreed, the lost cannot do anything to merit or earn salvation, as our faith is a filthy rag to God. When a person puts their trust in Christ, that does not earn or merit or in any way contribute to God's gracious salvation.

    3) Our faith is based on God's revelatory grace, but God crediting our faith as righteousness is a pure gift of grace.

    4) The work of the Holy Spirit is to convict humanity of sin, righteousness, and judgement. Thus the gospel of Christ convicts the lost of the sin of unbelief, such as John 3:18, convicts humanity of God's righteousness, even though Christ has returned to the Father, his birth, sinless life, death and resurrection because of testimony of the New Testament.

    5) Faith alone refers to faithful faith, the faith from which faithfulness flows, or using James illustration, live faith not dead faith.
    Thus actual faith, of the kind God might choose to credit as righteousness, includes a commitment to stop going our own way and to strive to follow Christ upon the paths of righteousness.

    6) The call to repent and believe is simultaneous, not sequential. Two sides of the same coin.

    7) Yes, eternal life begins when we are made "alive" together with Christ. And our spiritual eternal life is a prelude to our bodily redemption and physical eternal life.
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Romans 10:13-15, ". . . For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! . . ."
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    But this doesn't say that the Holy Spirit does not first convict the sinner.

    How can any person have an interest in the Lord in their lost state?

    Read Romans chapter 3
     
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    sounds like Jesus is wrong in Mark 1:15, and Luke 24:47; and Peter in Acts 2:38, for saying that it is a requirement for the sinner to repent of their sins, before they can get saved!
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    are you suggesting that a sinner can call upon the Lord for salvation, without the convicting of their sins by the Holy Spirit, in the first place?
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    are you saying that even the greater number of reformed theologians, as I have shown in #9, have got this wrong?
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Romans 10:13-15 does not exclude the work of the Holy Spirit by Him not being mentioned nor the Farther. They are the LORD in Romans 10:13 cited from Joel 2:32.
     
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    [/ quote] straw man argument. He did not say you should not repent of your sins.
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    read what he said: "You create salvation by virtue of a law: The sinner must, before they are saved, repent of their sins"
     
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