1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The Calvinist Gospel

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by atpollard, Sep 20, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    All of the elect will be saved...God is not willing that any of the elect will perish2pet.3:9.
    God has ordained the ways and means rom10:1-17
     
    #42 Iconoclast, Sep 22, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,151
    Likes Received:
    440
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why would 2 Peter read as it does in versions like the KJV, "long-suffering toward us"? It is rather a strange thing that Peter would say that God is not willing that any of the elect not perish, as though this were even possible, according to some. This reading is very unsound! However, the reading "εἰς ὑμᾶς" = "towards YOU", including the "mockers" of verse of verse 3, is far better attested in the textual evidence! So, what the Bible really says here, is that God is not willing that ANY SINNER were to perish, but that they should repent and believe the Gospel and get saved! As God has been saying all along, "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?" (Ezekiel 18:23), which has been limited by the likes of the Reformed/Calvinists, who suppose they know more than God! :rolleyes:
     
  4. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,382
    Likes Received:
    194
    Faith:
    Baptist

    No way of knowing but doubtful if anyone looked up all those scripture verses. Posting references after stating your premise is the worst possible way to make your point since all scripture has context to consider. It is a waste of time if you ask me. God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe, he says, Posting scripture references is not the way to go.
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The long suffering of God results in salvation.as per vs.15
    The whole chapter contrasts the ungodly scoffers with elect persons.
    All of those elected will be saved, and obviously at the time Peter wrote not all of the elect were born as of yet.
    Reformed Calvinists do not claim to know more than God,which is a profane suggestion on your part.They believe God and love His grace and do not wrest Paul's writing as the scoffers do in vs16.
    These persons are described as both unstable, and unlearned....to wrest scripture is to take it out and twist in as on a torture rack.
    We see that often on message boards when people cannot seem to follow the we, the us, to upward, both here and in Roman's 5.
    By the way God is very willing that multitudes perish, see mt7:21-24.
    The saints in Rev6 were assured the ungodly will certainly be punished for putting to death believers.
     
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,151
    Likes Received:
    440
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
  7. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    96
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Repentance is a synonym for faith


    Joy unspeakable full of glory
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,643
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I did. :)

    The questions, answers and footnoted scripture verses came directly from the 16th Century Catechism. When I first read it, I took nobody's word for it and looked up every verse to see just how "fast and loose" they might be playing with the context. What I discovered is that each verse (alone and within its context) tends to support one small part of each answer. I suggest picking one answer and looking up the verses keynoted for that answer and you will get a quick sense of how and why they were using those verses.

    You wrote "God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe, he says".
    God also says "God, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)" and goes on to expound on this grace by adding "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".

    ... which makes me want to shout Soli Deo gloria!
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lets look at another false copy and paste assertion.

    God "creates" true faith in me. This was claimed to be taught by Matthew 16:15-17. But all that passages says is God reveals spiritual truths. But the passage does not say we are compelled by irresistible grace to believe fully in those revealed truths.

    Next, John 3:5 is referenced. But all this verse says is we but be born anew (of Spirit) to enter the kingdom of God. Having our faith created within us by irresistible grace is no where to be found. Thus once again a non-germane reference.

    Next Acts 16:14 is referenced. Here the vague phrase "opened her heart" is claimed to mean "compelled by irresistible grace." Eisegesis front and center. All the phrase actually means is the truth was presented in such a way she could understand it, thus she was open to accepting it. Nowhere does it say her faith was created within her by irresistible grace.

    Old confessions, creeds and catechisms rarely stand up to modern study.
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,151
    Likes Received:
    440
    Faith:
    Baptist
    no!
     
  11. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is a doctrinal statement. Where is the gospel [glad tidings] there that you preach to the world?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,643
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I would correct the errors above, but your reading comprehension failure of what the Catechism claimed those verses say is so great that I have no idea where to begin.

    Maybe this will help ...

    A. True faith is not only a sure knowledge by which I hold as true all that God has revealed to us in Scripture;[1] it is also a wholehearted trust,[2] which the Holy Spirit creates in me[3] by the gospel,[4] that God has freely granted, not only to others but to me also,[5] forgiveness of sins, eternal righteousness, and salvation.[6] These are gifts of sheer grace, granted solely by Christ’s merit.[7]

    3 Matt. 16:15-17; John 3:5; Acts 16:14
    • [Matthew 16:15-17 NASB] 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
    • [John 3:5 NASB] 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    • [Acts 16:14 NASB] 14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
    The function of the verses in footnote 3 was to support the claim that the Holy Spirit created the "wholehearted trust" of footnote 2. The Heidelberg Catechism clearly DOES NOT SAY "God 'creates' true faith in me" was "taught by Matthew 16:15-17" NOR DOES IT SAY "we are compelled by irresistible grace to believe".

    The Heidelberg Catechism claimed that the Holy Spirit creates trust in us and offers in support [Matthew 16:15-17] where God and not flesh reveals spiritual truth about Christ to Peter, [John 3:5] where one must be "born of the Spirit" to enter the kingdom of God, and [Acts 16:14] where the Lord opens someone's heart.

    Do those verses indicate that the Holy Spirit creates the trust in us?
    I leave you to decide.
    All I ask is you be honest about what it actually says.
     
    #52 atpollard, Sep 22, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  13. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,643
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    the Gospel that I preach:

    God (is Holy)
    Man (is sinful - that's a problem)
    Jesus (came to fix it)
    Choose (what you gonna do now that you know.)
     
  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Um, the Gospel isn't found in John 3:16? Isn't that like the go to Gospel verse?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    96
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    You may not be saved!


    Joy unspeakable full of glory
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,151
    Likes Received:
    440
    Faith:
    Baptist
    and you think that you know more than God Incarnate, the Lord Jesus Christ!!! It is He who says, "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: REPENT, and BELIEVE the gospel" (Mark 1:15). And, again Jesus says, "And that repentance for remission of sins should be preached in His Name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47)

    And don't be so rude and pomopus, in saying that I might not be saved!!! WHO do you think you are to question my salvation? IF you are a believer, you are a DISGRACE to the Body of Jesus Christ!!! :Mad:Mad:Mad:Mad
     
  17. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He can't "choose".
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not technically. John 3:16 only makes sense in the light of passages like 1Corinthians 15:1-4.
    God "giving" the Son does not say that the Son would die an atoning death for sins and does not say he will rise again and does not say how to appropriate the benefits of that act.
    Of course John 3:16 is about the gospel, but it doesn't spell out the gospel like other passages do.
    We only understand John 3:16 to be about the gospel because of those other passages.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Again, repentance means different things in different dispensations.

    Agreed about Sai. Too many here are so doctrinally correct that they'll damn a brother to hell.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The point George is that Barry was dishonest about the other post. It definitely contained the Gospel and was another lame attempt at Anti-Calvinists to try to paint us in a bad light by misrepresenting our position. It is all you have.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...